Governer Springs
 

My engine currently has the 3k springs, but they have about 150,000 on them and I can tell that they've lost a little over the years. Now that I'm freshening up the engine, I was planning on just adding the 4K inner springs. I'm not really looking to anywhere close to 4000, but I want it to pull strong thru 3300-3400. Will adding just the inner spring work, or will things be out of sync a little with the combo of old 3k plus the new inner springs? A net result of 3.5k would be perfect.

just get the new set of 4k's i got mine from diesel_pap. they are a very reasonable price. and it helped my pickup out alot when i did it. if you want to go to that rpm i was recommended that i got 60 lb. valve springs to keep my valves from floating above 3200 rpms.

It wont hurt a cummings to turn 3500 or 4000 with 60v springs and nothing else done.:pca1:

hey zach just because you put 4k springs on there doesn't mean it'll fuel up to there right?

CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CU MMINS!CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CUMMINS!CUMM INS! there is no G!!!!!!!!! sorry man that just drives me nuts

:lol88::lol88:

Some tweaking of the pump and it will fuel to 4k noprob. With the 4k springs of course.

Oh sorry about that my bad i will proof read next time. But can you turn a CUMMINS that fast without hurting it.

Guys you're kinda missing the point to my post. First, I already have 60lb valve springs, so I'm not really worried about hurting the engine by reving it high. But, the stock cam's power curve drops off after about 3500, so unless you're running a lot of boost (twin turbo range) or spraying it, above 3500 is wasted RPMs.

My goal is to get the most out of the engine with the stock cam in it. I don't really want 4k springs because of their touchy driving characteristics (my wife will drive it some). But my current 3k springs are a little tired, and I've lost about 75 rpm at idle and about 200 rpm off the top end. So, will adding the 4k inner spring help restore some of what has been lost, or should I just get a fresh set of 3k springs. I've also thought about maybe tightening down my current springs by a click or two. Like I said earlier, a net result of 3.5k springs is what I'm actually looking for.

yes, but a upgraded damper would not hurt.

Most of the time on a DD your motor is turning less that 2500 rpms, short pulls above 3500 will not hurt.

i think its more of a head issue than a cam issue in the upper RPM range. The stock 12v head is very restrictive.

As for the most power with a stock cam in a 12 valve, I know of a truck that made 800+ at the wheels with the stock cam ... good bit of head work tho:tu:

I think you should buy either the inner spring or a set of 4k's. They will pull harder in the lower rpms and you will have a bigger top end range as well. There not as touchy as most say.

You could try tightening them down a bit, if that fails, to be safe i would just buy a new set of your choice.

Cummings ha

just go with the 4k kit from diesel pap, hes cheap. and their really not that touchy, mine is but i got them down a few extra clicks, and with a manual trans everythings touchy ha:tttt:
but i wouldnt screw around with the inner spring or that, just swap em out

Umm... diesel pap? Do you mean that mighty diesel web site? I can only find a 5500 gsk kit there and it's 217 bucks!

Mighty Diesel - Diesel Performance Parts For Cummins Powerstroke Duramax and More

I did find this site that has the 4k kit for 95 bucks, although shipping is kinda excessive at 10 dollars. I went ahead and ordered it about a week ago, just got it yesterday. I probably won't install it, until this Sunday or maybe later. According, to the instructions you just don't install the inner springs and it'll become the 3k kit. The other online sites I've search through seperate the two kits and put a price difference between the two. This site is the only site I've found thus far that has it for 100 bucks, though (if you don't include the overpriced shipping.) They don't even provide you with a tracking number.... at that price, I was expecting a tracking number.

3000-4000 RPM Governor Spring Kit: Source Automotive Performance Diesel

edit: oh wait, I've found them... under, the manufacturer search of "Pac Brake". (which is the same brand that's at that source automotive site.) Yeah, they are 5 dollars cheaper. Damn, I should have found this thread earlier.
http://mightydiesel.com/catalog/prod...6dom2hcpo8ns52

So if you're doing these springs yourself when you take off the retainer are the springs going to come shooting out at ya? How much better are the 3k springs opposed to the OEM springs? I'm only making moderate power mods on this truck for now anyway.

no they wont shoot out haha. they make a big difference. well worth the money. but dont waste your money on 3k. go right to 4ks youll want them adventually anyways

I did mine on Saturday. I used the DDP spring kit because I wanted to support a friend that is just getting in the business. Louisville people can look up Patrick Fogle, PDF Diesel.

Springs REALLY help to wake up an otherwise sluggish truck. I also advanced my timing to 16* and installed a #10 fuel plate and turbo orifice. Other mods are on the way including transmission mods to handle it.

You know how, when you're getting near 2200 rpm and the truck sort of just lays down and dies? After the spring kit it feels like it has another gear. Just keeps pulling, and of course the faster you twist it (to an extent) the more HP (not torque) you make as HP is torque times rpm. Nice kick in the pants -- in a good way.

This is not one of those things you have to think about. Just do it. This mod is sort of one of those, "What was wrong with the factory engineers when they built this thing?" sort of issues. No downside that I can think of (except perhaps emissions output or a truck too strong for the market).

The procedure is easy, takes less than an hour and a few hand tools (I made a special screwdriver to unscrew the nuts by grinding an old one with a slot to fit, but you can use almost anything). Biggest hassle was just getting the shut off relay out of the way to access the plug in the pump (discovered that my boot was wasted -- ordered a new one from Larry B's -- http://www.fostertruck.com/dodge/).

Two 8mm head screws, a hairpin clip, and the solenoid is out of the way. Another 8mm bolt (just loosen) and the linkage for the solenoid slides out of the way (watch the woodruff key in the shaft for the linkage -- it should be facing straight up). Remove the plug with a 7/8" socket (some oil will dribble out -- I also pulled the 24mm plug directly below this (holds the peg for returning to stock pump timing -- see: http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/94-98-tech-articles/131529-how-check-reset-your-timing-back-stock.html) to drain down a bit of the oil (about a cup or so will come out - have a bucket under the plug) so I could easily see the springs.

Rotate the engine using either a barring tool (http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=56074&group_ID=1294 &store=snapon-store&dir=catalog) or by turning the alternator nut backward until you can see the spring in the plug hole. Center it up -- clearance is tight when pulling the spring and cover. Measure the depth of the nut with a dial or digital caliper (http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=86436&group_ID=1142 &store=snapon-store&dir=catalog OR for a cheaper version of the same: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47256) so you can re-set the assembly to the same depth when you reassemble.

Unscrew the nuts, capture with a magnet so you don't drop any parts inside the pump or otherwise loose them. Pull off the top caps off the springs with the magnet. Pull out all the springs with the magnet. Pull out the bases with the magnet. Pull out any shims beneath the bases with the magnet.

Reinstall the new parts in the same order, re-using the largest set of springs (control the idle speed) and all the new springs. Put back the top hat over the springs, replace the nut to the same spot as before (also can count "clicks, but I did not find this an accurate way to figure the depth). and bar over the engine until the other set of springs appears in the window and repeat the process.

ALMOST takes as long to write it up as it does to do it (and it was first time for me).

My Dad tried to install a 4K kit on my truck a few weeks ago. And we ended up chickening out. Actually, my Dad doesn't have the patience to work in such a confined area and really has no experience with Diesels (honestly, we don't even know how to adjust the idle on these things). Plus he wasn't in the best of moods that day, so I just couldn't see this ending well, so I told him not to worry about it.

And I lack confidence to tear my only reliable ride apart... as in dig into the pump. So, I guess I'll just hold onto the kit, and maybe, one day I'll try to tackle this myself after studying this a lot more...

We were having difficulty in figuring out how to get to that plug. Think he was having trouble with that fuel solenoid thing, plus it looks real tight in there too and we were scared of doing more harm than good, really. I guess what he/we really needed was some more detailed step-by-step instructions and not the simplified ones we got with the kit. And I think the biggest fear was leaving something in the pump or something going wrong costing more dollars for something that a luxury and not a necessity.

Anyway, I keep reading about oil coming out of the plug, but there is never any mention of replacing the oil. Is it just diesel or something? And I noticed a thin chain running in front of that plug, are you supposed to just snap that?

Okay... One at a time.

Sounds like a personal (or personnel :w2:) problem. Actually, I had the same fears before launching into mine, but once I moved a few things out of the way, I discovered that there was enough room, and that all the wrenching was just basic mechanic stuff -- no special skills or blind ambidextrous maneuvers needed. This job, like many other jobs on vehicles these days, requires the movement of a few other pieces before you get to the main task. It is actually faster and easier to move the pieces (they are designed to move easily) than to try the job by operating blind, reaching around, using some specialty tool, etc.) From start to finish, the job should take less than an hour -- even for a first time try -- it was first time for me also, but I found out that it is easier than the "simple instructions" that came with the kit make it seem.

You are really going to mess up nothing in doing this kit unless you drop a part inside the fuel pump, and that really isn't going to happen if you use a decent magnet and just take care. Most of the parts are far too big to actually drop in -- only the final seat for the springs and the shims that go under can drop. Otherwise, it is a no-brainer. If you can unscrew a nut, lift off a cap, pull out 3 springs, lift out a base, then reinstall, you can do the job. And, it is worth it -- especially for a daily driver.

First, you have to pull the air horn. That is just nuts and bolts. Loosen the lower clamp on the inter-cooler boot (might want to hit the clamp nut with some PB Blaster a day or so before) then remove the 5 bolts that hold the air horn to the intake. Hold down on the heater block (has wires to it) under the air horn so you don't mess up the gasket under it (might be a good idea to have a pair of new gaskets just in case -- they are about 1.25 each from Cummins or a vendor on the site -- you won't find them at local auto parts stores). Pull the air horn out of the way and lift the dipstick out of the way also. Just nuts and bolts stuff -- nothing can get hurt in this process.

Then pop out the vacuum line that goes to the brake booster, and remove the small line that feeds the heater core so that you can slide the vacuum line out of the way. Pull a couple of the clips that hold the wire harness and it can lift up some and get out of your way also.

The shut-off solenoid just lifts out of place. Yes, looking in from the fender, with all the linkage, wires, dipstick tube, brake booster, etc., in your view, it looks horrible. Truth is, the solenoid holds to its bracket with two small bolts (8mm wrench or socket). The bottom of the solenoid plunger has a shaft that ends in a block with a hole that just slips over a peg on the linkage. Pull the hair-pin and the block slips right off. The entire solenoid then lifts right out of place. The solenoid plunger can come out of the solenoid. That's okay -- that's the way it is made. The boot holds it in place, as does having it installed into its bracket. So, don't worry if it slides out, just wipe it clean and stick it back in. That is way easier than it looks from topside.

Note that the solenoid boot may be damaged -- check it out and get a new one on order from the site I supplied above. IF if is damaged, you can run the truck without the rubber boot just fine -- FOR A FEW DAYS. Replace the boot as soon as the new one comes in so the plunger mechanism of the solenoid doesn't get damaged or dirty (mine had been run with a destroyed boot for years as evidenced by the complete deterioration of my boot -- it fell apart in my hands -- it still works fine).

The final piece of linkage that hooks to the pump in that location is another block that slips over a shaft. This block is split and is held solid by another bolt (8mm wrench) that squeezes the block onto the shaft. Loosen it some and it will slip right off. The shaft is keyed (called a woodruff key -- a half-moon-shaped key) so it goes back in exactly the same spot -- no worries about adjustment on any of these parts.

Once this stuff is moved, you can see the plug hole.

The pump is oiled from the engine's pressurized oil pump. There is a fitting that you can see if you look between the pump (the block where the DV are housed) and the engine. The pump housing fills with oil until a certain point, then the excess dumps back through a weep hole into the oil pan of the engine. The supply of oil is continually refreshed from the engine oil system. You will end up loosing a couple of cups of oil that you can replace in the engine if need be. Probably won't even notice it on the dipstick. So don't worry about the oil.

I mentioned pulling the plug under the cap where you access the springs. That is a 24mm plug nut directly below (and just to the left, looking straight at the spring cover plug) that sticks out of the pump block. This cap seals with a copper washer. It has a poppet inside the cap that can be reversed to check pump timing (see article referenced above). Just set it aside until you are done, then reinstall it. Pulling it will let the oil inside the pump drain down a bit to make it easier to see the springs.

The "thin chain" is actually just a twisted piece of safety wire so that Cummins or Dodge will know if someone has been inside the pump. Just use a wire cutter and remove it. It does nothing else except be there as an indicator that someone has been in the pump. (Same for the "break-off screw" in the AFC where the fuel plate sits.)

When I did my work, I used a ladder sitting right by the driver's side tire, and did all my work from the side (not the front) of the engine. I bungee corded the inter-cooler tube against the battery to have a bit more room. I could have pulled it, but it was okay -- plenty of room to work once you get the solenoid out of the way.

I've since built a 2' X 4' platform that is about a foot high for working on the truck. Just flop it down and walk around. Makes it easier than standing on a ladder.

Anyway, once you actually turn a wrench on this, you'll discover why the instructions are so simple. The job really is that easy. Like I said above, I had the same fears as you do, but once I started (with a lot of guidance from this and another site) I found out that my fears were misplaced as this job ranked as about a 2 on a scale of difficulty between 1-10 (10 the most difficult). I can think of a ton of jobs that are more difficult, including replacing brake shoes on a drum brake system.

guys we fixed our site where they are easier to find. :tu:

its so much easier to just remove the afc cover and plate to get to the gov springs.
This way the spring is straight up so you can see it better and you have more room.

But then there would be that bolt that I'd have to snap off (right?).

Glfredrick thanks for the detailed info. I still don't know if I'm really going to attempt it or not, yet. I'm still leaning towards, not; nevertheless. Maybe, I'll attempt it myself when I have everything in line. And have like a week off from work or something... where I don't need a reliable ride for a while, in case something *bad*, happens.

As for the notched tool, as in grinding a notch in a screwdriver, about how much of a gap do you put? (1/8" long and 3/16" deep, maybe?) Although, I don't have a grinder, so I'll probably have to do it with a file... plus need to locate a cheap screwdriver to destroy. How big of a head do you suggest? 1/2 inch, maybe?

And yeah we managed to tear the intake horn gasket. Cheapest price I could find it for was $5.50 (+tax) at a local Dodge dealer. Not that it mattered, online isn't exactly an option when you need it today.

However, online, the cheapest I found them for was around $2.50... with about 7 dollars worth of shipping!. Then I found it at some other sites for around 6 bucks with 3 dollars shipping and what-not. I've also noticed that online it can be confusing what you're looking for. I mean you look under, "intake horn gasket", and you usually don't find anything. "Heater Grid", gives you a lot more results. Also for reference the cummins part number seems to be: 3969988. Typing that in gives you returns, too. Or may help when they don't provide pictures (such as in my first link.)

In my initial search for instructions, I found this page. Initial instructions are about going through the top. The comments that follow the instrucitions, I found note worthy. Although, still didn't help much in my/our attempt. (Heh here's something funny, I found the same basic instructions on another site, as a .pdf, but minus some inserts, such as his special earth magnet....)

Heh, well that's the part that scares me. and my Pop. How many shims/pieces should I end up with? Number of springs is a given, but it's the number of shims that scares me.

You don't need any special magnets... Just any decent pencil magnet will do. Just make sure it isn't a bargain basement variety that has no holding power. If it will lift a half-inch nut and hold it, it will lift the parts you're working with.

It really isn't that big a deal (haven't I said that already about 10 times?) to take the parts out. I was scared too until I just did it. Then it was like, C#%p -- that was easy.

Some guys advocate going down through the top. To me, that means reaching into the pump about 3 extra inches or so instead of having everything RIGHT THERE. I'd say there is an easier chance to drop stuff using the top method, but either way will work. With the side method, the springs are tipped up a bit from sticking straight out sideways. Everything stays on the pin until it is right at the surface of the hole. No real way to drop anything that way. You can SEE IT. Think carnival ring toss game -- a peg with stuff lowered down over it -- only you get to be right on the peg when you do the work.

I used a Dremel tool to do the notch in the screwdriver. I also ground the tip of the driver down to where it was widest, then narrowed it to fit the slot in the nut. I'd say a 1/4" slot would do it, and if it doesn't file it wider. You really don't need that - I just did it to make it faster. Use an ULTRA CHEAP 1/2" wide screwdriver. A 99 cent special will do it. No real force of any kind on the nut at all.

this isnt a hard mod, its all in your head. i was nervous when i did mine. and i just turned 15 years old. just have a nice pencil magnet and some patience. youll get it. and i thought the directions that came with the pacbreak kit from diesel pap were accually pretty good

did you know dan that they are 3 or 4 k kits. just dont use the whole thing for 3 k

yep. i think youd be dumb not to do the 4k. there so much better, and if ya can control yourself, valve springs arent required right away

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ill be giving you a call tommorow for valair hydros diesel pap

ok:tu:

id give ya a call to tonight to talk about it, but i gotta wait till tommorow to deposit the cash for my buddy in my checking!

So Diesel Pap what you're saying is if you buy the 4k kit and only install half of it then it makes it a 3k kit?

Exactly. There are two extra small springs that slip inside the spring pack that make a 3000 GSK into a 4000 GSK. Your choice whether to run them or not. Run with the 3K springs, swap in the 4K springs and go back any time you like. Only takes a few minutes once you've been in there and know how it works.

yep:tu:

With the PacBrake Brand, anyway. (probably the same for other 4K GSK brands, but Pacbrake actually tells you in their instructions.) These are the instructions that come with it. This.pdf is really better than what you get, because the .pdf shows the photos in color.

Although, Figure 106 looked different than what's I saw, on my truck... and where I/we got stuck. And the instructions also seems to assume you know things (such as the last sentence of step number 22, for example. As in, what idle screw?) Also it doesn't explain what happens if you install the springs too tight or too lose. Or if you drop a shim in the pump. And the pictures are obviously from a pump that hasn't been installed, nor in the position that it's really going to be.


Also, I found if you go to the wrong site... they'll charge as much as 200 bucks for the kit and separate the 3K kit from the 4K kit . I guess they just don't include the third pair of small springs with the 3K kit, nor tell you that the last set of springs is all that determines the max RPM. (and in those example seems they forgot to modify the description, too. If that's not a sign post to stay away, I don't know what is.)

Very good, this is a job I'll probably tackle myself. Although my concern is just what you said what if you drop a shim? I should be able to handle the measurement as I've used calipers in many jobs. so from what I see you start with the small spring and work outward and replace all 3 if you're choosing the 4k kit? Also is it easier to get the spring and then the shim afterward?

That other links I've left, in a previous post, had a bit to say about that.... if it happens I'll link it again.

However, any advice from me is really the blind leading the blind, you know.

just take everything out ONE at a time and you should be fine. one side might have two shims and the other side one or not shimed at all. they can all be different. hope you have better luck than i did getting the side plug back in. very fine thread and a royal pain in the butt for me.

your seriously over thinking this hardcore. its not a hard mod at all. just have patience, time, and a pencil magnet

I'm not over thinking anything. I've learned from mistakes in the past to make sure I've got the information I need before taking on a first time project rather that tearing something apart that I have no info about. I will be getting this done in the next couple weeks. Also info on changing the Valve springs, as far as the process of changing them. I do know how to remove the valve covers so we can skip that step. Thanks guys.

I did my first ones bout 2 months ago. got mine from diesel pap. i was worried about it and all but once you get in there it's alot easier than what you think. i did mine through the side it was alot easier than going through the top

The springs are pretty easy to install, just a little tough to get to. Just make sure you have a pencil magnet. You should also have a dial caliper or something to measure with, to make sure you get the retainers in the right place. Measure the exposed stud length before and after. It should be about .050.

The valve springs take longer to install, but are still pretty easy. Just make sure you have the right valve spring compressor, that makes a big difference on 5 & 6. The barring tool is nice to have too.

So I have a couple more questions. First what about changing the spring kit in the AFC? Second does anyone know if there are many members from Utah on this site?