Help/ideas on external tranny filter, adjusting bands & finding/fixing pres regulator
#1
05-10-2014, 07:50 PM
Help/ideas on external tranny filter, adjusting bands & finding/fixing pres regulator
Hello all,
Recently acquired an older Dodge mid 90's with a cummins 12V that has the fateful 47RE transmission. (just not enough tranny for the cummins from what I understand)
It appears to have been driven hard at times and when I went to change the trans fluid, it was like mud in the lower half of the pan but still looking like pink tranny fluid near the surface.
The tranny still seems to be doing ok, shifting properly and asked a young cummins mech who also has a mid 90's and he said that if a person pushes it too hard, excessive wear on the bands could indeed turn the fluid into black mud.
1) At any rate, I changed fluid and filter, but thought it might be best to install an external full flow HD inline filter to filter out residual junk and to keep the fluid clean but am not sure which line is the output side. The external filter I got has a 12psi bybass valve in the filter so if the inline filter clogs for any reason, it should still have ample fluid flow. Someone thought it would be the line that feeds into the bottom of the front trans cooler but not sure. Does anyone know for sure which line on this transmission is the output line?
2) Also, since the prior owner probably pushed the trans too hard, it would probably be good to adj the bands, but in research, I'm finding 2 or 3 different sets of specs for the same tranny. I would really like to make sure I'm using the right spec's as the back-off turns are different and the two different sources have different back-off turn #'s and don't want to have the bands too loose or too tight (and then cause more damage due to slipping or burning). Does anyone know for sure what the adjustment specs are for the 2 bands on this diesel truck tranny?
3) Another issue is the truck won't immediately move if after sitting a while, is started and immediately put into drive. From what others have indicated, the check valve (others called it the transmission pressure solenoid transducer sensor (and governor)) was plugged and limiting pressure and/or allowing fluid to backflow out of lines/coooler etc. One person said to just just cut the 'check valve' out of the line and put a hose in to connect the lines as it was causing the loss of pressure (but then would always have to idle in neutral for a bit to allow fluid to be pumped back into the lines, cooler etc. Another fellow was able to get it working by taking it off and cleaning with brake cleaner but said it was mounted to the valve body so I am not sure where this supposes check valve / tranducer sensor is.
The truck after sitting for many days won't move immedietly after starting when put in drive (it acts like the transmission is in neutral). But, if I first put it in neutral and let it idle for at least 15 seconds (I was reminded by a friend that a torque converter doesn't pump when in park, only in drive or neutral) then put it in drive, everything seems to work ok. some notes indicate the line regulator is either plugged up or check valve not working which is allowing fluid to back drain (if so, probably from all the mud).
Does anyone know where this check valve and/or pressure solenoid transducer sensor and/or govenor are located so I can try to see if they are indeed plugged and/or not check-valving properly?
Oh, one additional trait. With very slight acceleration both from stop as well as while on the road, the engine shudders. If I accelerate normally, more aggressively or even flooring it, there is no engine shudder and everything is fine. Someone mentioned a prior owner may have modified / adjusted the throttle plate? I'm wondering if it has anything to do with possible plugged lines on the tranny.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Recently acquired an older Dodge mid 90's with a cummins 12V that has the fateful 47RE transmission. (just not enough tranny for the cummins from what I understand)
It appears to have been driven hard at times and when I went to change the trans fluid, it was like mud in the lower half of the pan but still looking like pink tranny fluid near the surface.
The tranny still seems to be doing ok, shifting properly and asked a young cummins mech who also has a mid 90's and he said that if a person pushes it too hard, excessive wear on the bands could indeed turn the fluid into black mud.
1) At any rate, I changed fluid and filter, but thought it might be best to install an external full flow HD inline filter to filter out residual junk and to keep the fluid clean but am not sure which line is the output side. The external filter I got has a 12psi bybass valve in the filter so if the inline filter clogs for any reason, it should still have ample fluid flow. Someone thought it would be the line that feeds into the bottom of the front trans cooler but not sure. Does anyone know for sure which line on this transmission is the output line?
2) Also, since the prior owner probably pushed the trans too hard, it would probably be good to adj the bands, but in research, I'm finding 2 or 3 different sets of specs for the same tranny. I would really like to make sure I'm using the right spec's as the back-off turns are different and the two different sources have different back-off turn #'s and don't want to have the bands too loose or too tight (and then cause more damage due to slipping or burning). Does anyone know for sure what the adjustment specs are for the 2 bands on this diesel truck tranny?
3) Another issue is the truck won't immediately move if after sitting a while, is started and immediately put into drive. From what others have indicated, the check valve (others called it the transmission pressure solenoid transducer sensor (and governor)) was plugged and limiting pressure and/or allowing fluid to backflow out of lines/coooler etc. One person said to just just cut the 'check valve' out of the line and put a hose in to connect the lines as it was causing the loss of pressure (but then would always have to idle in neutral for a bit to allow fluid to be pumped back into the lines, cooler etc. Another fellow was able to get it working by taking it off and cleaning with brake cleaner but said it was mounted to the valve body so I am not sure where this supposes check valve / tranducer sensor is.
The truck after sitting for many days won't move immedietly after starting when put in drive (it acts like the transmission is in neutral). But, if I first put it in neutral and let it idle for at least 15 seconds (I was reminded by a friend that a torque converter doesn't pump when in park, only in drive or neutral) then put it in drive, everything seems to work ok. some notes indicate the line regulator is either plugged up or check valve not working which is allowing fluid to back drain (if so, probably from all the mud).
Does anyone know where this check valve and/or pressure solenoid transducer sensor and/or govenor are located so I can try to see if they are indeed plugged and/or not check-valving properly?
Oh, one additional trait. With very slight acceleration both from stop as well as while on the road, the engine shudders. If I accelerate normally, more aggressively or even flooring it, there is no engine shudder and everything is fine. Someone mentioned a prior owner may have modified / adjusted the throttle plate? I'm wondering if it has anything to do with possible plugged lines on the tranny.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Last edited by BubbaDiesel; 05-10-2014 at 08:26 PM. Reason: One additional trait
#2
06-13-2014, 05:41 PM
Ok, well got no feedback but here's some updates. On the driver side, the 2 lines on that side that run up to the front, on at least on mine, the inside line is the output to the front cooler, and the outside line is the return line that dumps into the open cavity of the transmission at the back.
Also finally found a few websites that had the specs. The # of turns to back off the adjustment varies slightly for the rear band between years but again on the 47re the data I found listed to torque the adjustment bolts to 72 inch lbs (that have a screwy square head bolt that a regular socket won't grab onto), the front being on the driver side on the outside with a lock nut and the rear being inside the drain pan just past the filter on the passenger side (may be easier to do if filter is off, and the front band adjustment to be torqued to 72 inch lbs and then backed off 2 turns and the same for the rear but backed off 2 7/8 turns.
While having the transmission drain pan off of the 47RE, I replaced the Governor Solenoid Borg 12432AB, the Pressure Sensor 96-99 12415B and for good measure the Governor Housing Base Gasket 12328B as I nicked the old one when trying to get the plate to release. You have to remove the filter to get to the govenor housing so you may as well replace the filter. If you use the Borg Solenoid, be careful as the 2 pin connector receptical was configured upside down from the one that was in there and I tried to plug the connector in the same way and wouldn't go easily so had to turn it upside down so it would mate up. So far, it seems that the back draining problem is fixed as I wait a while and I will still get immediate movement when going from park to drive or reverse, but will post an update if it turns out the problem of having to put the truck in neutral for a bit to get the pressure/flow going is still there after the truck has sit for a week or more. Both of these items I've seen others suggest to replace if this problem is occuring and these 2 items are held in place by the governor housing plate which is under the filter. One additional note, I back flushed the front trans oil cooler with compressed air. I'm not sure if that might have been contributing to the delayed movement problem when putting the transmission in gear, but it blew out the tranny fluid at a pretty good clip so hopefully any blockage is now no longer there.
The one issue that seems to still be an issue is the very slight acceleration both from stop as well as while on the road, the engine (or transmission???) shudders. If I accelerate normally, more aggressively or even flooring it, there is no shudder and everything is fine. Someone mentioned a prior owner may have modified / adjusted the throttle plate? But this trait is still there (no change).
Anyone with any ideas on what the shudder might be, would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Also finally found a few websites that had the specs. The # of turns to back off the adjustment varies slightly for the rear band between years but again on the 47re the data I found listed to torque the adjustment bolts to 72 inch lbs (that have a screwy square head bolt that a regular socket won't grab onto), the front being on the driver side on the outside with a lock nut and the rear being inside the drain pan just past the filter on the passenger side (may be easier to do if filter is off, and the front band adjustment to be torqued to 72 inch lbs and then backed off 2 turns and the same for the rear but backed off 2 7/8 turns.
While having the transmission drain pan off of the 47RE, I replaced the Governor Solenoid Borg 12432AB, the Pressure Sensor 96-99 12415B and for good measure the Governor Housing Base Gasket 12328B as I nicked the old one when trying to get the plate to release. You have to remove the filter to get to the govenor housing so you may as well replace the filter. If you use the Borg Solenoid, be careful as the 2 pin connector receptical was configured upside down from the one that was in there and I tried to plug the connector in the same way and wouldn't go easily so had to turn it upside down so it would mate up. So far, it seems that the back draining problem is fixed as I wait a while and I will still get immediate movement when going from park to drive or reverse, but will post an update if it turns out the problem of having to put the truck in neutral for a bit to get the pressure/flow going is still there after the truck has sit for a week or more. Both of these items I've seen others suggest to replace if this problem is occuring and these 2 items are held in place by the governor housing plate which is under the filter. One additional note, I back flushed the front trans oil cooler with compressed air. I'm not sure if that might have been contributing to the delayed movement problem when putting the transmission in gear, but it blew out the tranny fluid at a pretty good clip so hopefully any blockage is now no longer there.
The one issue that seems to still be an issue is the very slight acceleration both from stop as well as while on the road, the engine (or transmission???) shudders. If I accelerate normally, more aggressively or even flooring it, there is no shudder and everything is fine. Someone mentioned a prior owner may have modified / adjusted the throttle plate? But this trait is still there (no change).
Anyone with any ideas on what the shudder might be, would be appreciated.
Thanks!
