Why leave a diesel running?
 

So I am new to this forum stuff but here goes. I am a firefighter and when onscene at calls we leave our rigs running. People complain about it all the time. Most folks dont get its tough on a diesel to be constantly starting and stopping. Any points on this would be appreciated. We have a ton of electronics on our rigs, air brakes and what not. Plus we run hard to the alarm so the exhaust temps have to be high when we arrive so we cant just shut it off right away. Help me out with some more points on why to leave our engines running please. Thanks.

i previously drove tow trucks and got the same complaints, basicaly id make things up like it takes more fuel to stop and restart it, or its louder when it starts and smokes like crazy
or simply the tracking device keeps the truck/occupant safe and accounted for also helping to quicken service, which is kinda true

Lots of short cold trips are hard on any truck. Its not good to hammer on a truck when its still cold, and in the emergency field thats exactly what you would be doing if you did not leave them idling all the time.

What exactly are they complaining about? Make sure to let them know that diesels use much less fuel idling than a gas engine.

On another topie Ive heard bad stories about DPF equipped emergency vehicles......

are you talking personal rig or the fire truck?

I believe after reading his post again hes talking about the fire trucks.

I've always been told that its better to leave a diesel running all day than starting it and shutting it off all the time. It stays lubricated (it takes about 30 seconds or so for the oil to get to the top of the motor on start up), and it stays warm. With firetrucks you have all of your lights running, pumps going, and other electronics going all at one time. I suppose with emergency vehicles, and tow trucks, you have to be ready for anything. So you might as well keep it running just in case something happens.

I read an article here a while back about DPF equipped ambulances and other emergency vehicles. Seems they were causing major problems, getting clogged up because they did idle their vehicles so much. Dang EPA :td:

Why leave a diesel running?
 

I was kinda think the fact that you need it running to run pumps and everything else . Also if it's somewhere like here in west Texas fighting grassfires you leave it running so you can move from spot to spot quickly as needed

I have also heard the same thing about the dpf equipped ambulances and fire trucks having problems having to idle

Idle for days
 

Thanks for the input. People complain about the fumes or that we waste fuel or about the noise. If people actually ask us about it we tell them why. Its tough to explain about exhaust temp and turbos to folks who have already made up their mind they dont like what you are doing. Also I attempt to explain about the air brakes, which bleed if not running the engine or plugged into the compressor at the station. I try and walk them though some of the electronics like lights, radios, chargers, monitors, suction, primer pumps, thermal cam and a bunch of other stuff. They think we waste fuel but really these rig consume about a gallon a hour at idle. Most of the time I think these folks just want something to bitch about. I am supposed to put the reasons we leave our rigs running onscene onour website to help explain and was just looking for more tips, so thank you and keep em coming

Not a problem :tu:

tell em you leave it running to give there life meaning. without you there what would they be doing? probably staring at a wall. or tell them its just to piss them off lol i would say the fact that your there to help them should mean enough that they shouldn't complain. if there house is on fire and they're trapped inside are they gonna be complaining that your truck is still running when you bring them out? i would hope not

Just tell them the fire Dept doesn't have enough money to put new batteries or to replace the starter. So you have to leave the trucks running because it is to heavy to push start. Sometimes stupid questions deserve stupid answeres

Why leave a diesel running?
 

I'm not sure if you are a pump operator or not, but when it's cold outside, the truck needs to run with the pump in gear so that the water in the tank circulates and doesn't freeze. If the water freezes in the pump it'll split the pump and at that point you might as well just buy an entire new rig. Plus if it's dark outside (which at night is when people complain most about idling) and you need to run scene lights, something needs to be generating power. Those scene lights will drain your batteries in like 30 seconds haha. Actually, most trucks scene lights can't be turned on unless the unit is running. So tell the bystanders to let us do our job!!

I am an operator and up here we really dont need to worry about our pumps freezing. The pump itself holds about thiry gallons so that would take some real cold weather and a long sit. yes scene lights suck a ton of juice. i wish folks would just shut up and let us do our thing, especially when they got no clue. Thanks

who in their right mind would bitch at fire fighters :s:

That's what I was thinking

Why leave a diesel running?
 

If it's a volunteer service a lot of people just think they're jokes. There's really a lack of respect. I'm a firefighter/paramedic and it's rare to get a thank you out of everyone

Yeah they think they're jokes until one of them is pulling their sorry butt out of a burning house :bat:

Yeah tell those guys to buzz off. Cluless people are cluless people plain and simple. Your fine Idleing just use the hie idle switch! We got guys who will sit in the crashtrucks during a refuel and never kick the idle up. Its hard on the engine and other things. It helps keep the temps up in the cylinders kepps fuel from getting washed into the oil. Other things as well. If your running sence lights and pumping then your putting the engine under load anyway so thats all good. It takes a good bit on juce to turn over a big cat or detroit and those bateries need to recover and they need a bit of time to do so. Anyhow man thanks for what you do and dont argue with idiots lol.

a stupid moron:argh::argh:

Hmmm, so high idle puts a load on the engine and avoids fuel from being washed into the oil?


- High idle does not put a load on the engine, it just keeps coolant flow higher to avoid overheating. It lso serves as an aid to charge the battery as
we know charging current is below 50% of max alternator output
- If that amount of fuel in the oil is noticeable the piston rings are already ruined anyway.
- Only non proper working injectors let a huge amount of fuel drip into the combustion chamber.

Idle is the poor people choice of engine preheating or powersupply. All others use gen sets for power supply or engine heaters (electric or combustion heaters) to keep the engine operational.

I wouldn't blame the Department, it's just time for a better truck from the government.

Doesnt seem poor when you're burning $4 a gallon diesel :humm:

when im at work on a road call i never shut the truck off as a rule of thumb i dont wanna be stuck somewhere and my truck wont start tell em not to worry bout it and ull do ur job and tell them to stay the hell outta the way

Kick up the high idlle on your rig while sitting.When it's idiling it's murder on the dpf system. the soot builds up in the muffler and when the injector injects fuel, the muffler can't burn it properly.After a while, the motor will go into a limp mode.
And thank you for your service:tu:
Don't worry about the people complaining,they don't know squat.

Depending on the price of an engine heater diesel is cheap.
Savings will come in the long run depending on fuel consumption.
Typical fuel consumption of an engine heater:
1/4 gal per hour.Thats a buck per hour-sounds better,huh?

Im guessing you're referring to an engine heater that runs off of fuel and not electricity? Ive heard of them before, I think there's a guy on this forum that has one on his truck.

Seems to be a slight missunderstanding about my post. I said if your there at the seen and using your lights and whatnot even useing a genset that may be PTO driven if equpied will put the engine under load and you will ned to raise your engine speed to use such things. Yes things get curculated beter though your correct but high idle can help keep things at operating temp and can even help move more across the AC condesor and other things when the fan kicks on. Just an idle its self dosnt realy put a load on the engine.

Yupp, this guy is named Dr. Evil, RA Williams and Deezel Stink3r.
We have them.:c:

Yeah I was thinkin of RA Williams.

Happens all the time and being an officer I always seem to get dragged into teh middle of it. Just put on a smile, talk noce and respectfully to them, and explain that the truck needs to idle to keep all your equipment ready to go.

Extended low idle will allow cyl temp to drop low enough that complete combustion wont happen and may allow some cyl wash down. You need to high idle if sitting still for more then 5 min.

Thanks for info...

i think the old navistar t444e used to have a sticker on the dash telling you to idle it at 1250 rpm in cold weather to avoid engine damage. thats kinda screaming, but im sure they told you that for a reason. funny thing is i dont think the 7.3 psd (more or less same engine) had the automatic high idle like the 6l psd or vt365 does.

anyway tell them to go indoors and close their windows if they dont like noise. i live in an apartment building and work night shift. i sleep through everybodys noise. i dont shut tow truck off untill call is done, that murphy is a real dick and would prob make sure my starter was on a dead spot if i shut the truck off with a car on the deck.

people complain because it makes them feel more important. i remember a story about an airport that was closed for several days to air traffic while they did some repairs to the airport. they still got noise complaints about aircraft even though there were none!

I don't like to let my diesel truck idle more than a minute, cause I have a DPF & it'll clogged it & then it will regen. wasting diesel fuel:argh:

Running a diesel at idle for long periods of times causes more harm than starting and shutting off. Buy since your fire, you proably need to leave them running for the electromincs, water pumps and your Lights.... Or you will be jump starting a cab over fire truck...

most fire trucks and ambulances that i have worked on will kill the batteries and not restart if you shut them off for over an hour, the power inverters, cooling fans, strobe lights and safety equipment all drain the batteries, so obviously the truck needs to run to re-charge them.

as far as my trucks go, We can not shut them down anywhere but back in the bays with the shore lines pluged in. If we need to move a patient fast or leave 1 call in a hurry for another, we dont have time to wait for the engine to start back up and refill any lost air. Our scene lights are run off a genny, but the truck battery is wired directly to it for electric start. Even our brush trucks remain running during any exercise just to make sure the bateries stay charged. If one of our brush trucks get shut off, It is a very good bet that it will have to be jump started to get it running again. Just my .02

a buddy of mine worked as a aircraft refueler for a while and they left the tankers all running 24/7 in the winter. ol scabby gmc medium dutys with 8.2l detroits. i always get a laugh when you see a classified ad for an airport vehicle and it says "low miles" prob has 9,000,000 hours on it though. i bet even the miles are pretty hard i guess they beat the piss out of those things when he worked there. he told me he was behind one that took a corner to hard and it had both duals on the inside of the turn off the ground. fuel must have sloshed a bit:rocking:

well i work for the railroad, and our diesels make even the baddest semi truck engine look like a toy. And in the winter months most if not all the engines on the locomotives are left running throughout the season. This is done for many reasons number one being there is just plain water with rust inhibitors no antifreeze in any locomotive engine, because certain locomotive makers namely EMD aka general motors do not allow it because it is harmful to the bearings in the waterpumps etc. Secondly a typical diesel of this size may hold up to 400 gallons of coolant and having to purchase 200 gals of antifreeze is too expensive. Also the compression is lower than your regular truck diesel (about 14:1 ) they can't tolerate cold as much. Thirdly the starting process can take up to ten minutes and a few more to warm the engine up to make it ready to put the load on it. Its just not sensible to shut it down when its gonna be used a hour or so later in the yard or where ever.

Although nowadays with everyone getting more and more concerned about the environment several companies have developed ways to shut locomotives down to save fuel and emissions etc. Most if not all newer and some olders ones have been fitted with an auto start feature which starts and shuts the main engine off to maintain water temp and battery levels, it is however disabled at outside temps lower than 40 deg f. And on the newer and rebuilt locos it can also kick up the rpm on the engine if the turbo, the traction motors are hot, or the air brake pressure is low, or water temps are not high enough etc. sort of like high idle on a truck.

Another thing now there are APU's like on a rig only slightly larger, Buffalo and Pittsburgh railroad has a few prototypes of these utlizing a cat C7 engine. the small engine stays running when the loco is inactive for long periods of time and keeps the larger engine warm. Another new thing is gen set locomotives using a few smaller engines instead of one large one. The few ive seen use Cummins KTA type engines and are able to be shut off when not used.

And about people complaining, you bet your bottom dollar they do, we always hear complaints about the noise and the so called bad smell. I say we work hard every day sacrificing time away from our families, and its not like the job is not without its dangers, we strive every day to provide you with the products you love so much and you're gonna complain :argh:

At least the EMD F40PH screamers passenger engines have been all but have been all but modified. Passenger locomotives and cars used to utilize steam heat and seperate generators for lighting. old locomotives had a diesel fired steam boiler on them. In the 70's heat, lighting and A/C are all run electrically. First designs to utilize HEP (head end power or hotel power as its called) used an alternator driven by the main engine. Problem was the in order to produce the 60hz power the engine had to turn at 900 rpm. which is full throttle for them. The power to the loco wheels was controlled by varying the field on the drive motors in the axles. They were quite loud when they were parked at terminals at the end of their runs at night, screaming at full throttle they could be heard for quite a while people did complain left and right Commuter lines still use these locos but they have been outfitted with and aux engine to drive the alternator most use a cat 3406 or a cummins n14. They are much quieter as the aux engines use a muffler and most older locomotives have no mufflers what so ever. Amtrak's diesels still use the older method of driving the passenger power alternator off the main engine but the newer GE FDL 4 stroke diesel with a exhaust silencer is much quieter than an older EMD Two stroke diesel.

Just tell them its their hard earned tax money at work. Smile and say thank you. I leave mine idleing on cold days all day if need be. Like said before little fuel is cheaper then batteries and starters