2000 E350-Start, Run, Die! Little Money! Help!
 

I have a 2000 E350 7.3, bought van last year it had a shudder. Took fuel system apart up to the injectors and cleaned system. Installed new fuel filter. Installed new pick-up tube. Pick-up tube disintigrated and clogged pre-filters in sending unit and replaced the I.D.M. It ran fine for a year. The engine would gasp for air now and then. A 5 chime 5 time warning would go off while driving from time to time. I know the turbo needs rebuilt. Recently it ran out of fuel, and eventually got it restarted and running. All was fine, then sitting in traffic it just died. Ran batteries dead, recharged, put more fuel in and it eventually started again, usually restarts after I open the fuel filter and cycle the key a few times. My truck has 2 different relay looking items to the left of the H.P.O.P. and fuel filter housing. 1 is behind the alternator, the other is behind #1. The rear or #2 relay (what looks like the glow plug relay) is smoking when I turn the key to on. Could that be my problem with why it shuts off? It needs an oil change, it the Fuel pressure sensor sticking?, Could that be my problem? Checked the lift pump, it sprays a 2' stream when I disconnect the line to the fuel filter housing. It does bubble and spirt a little before getting a nice steady flow. Put in a new fuel filter. It cranks, it wants to start, it just will not. I am about to go belly-up, from all the downturns to have affected my once middle class socio-economic status. I have very little money to get this thing running before I lose the rest of what I have left. My question is: What steps can I take from cheapest to expensive to figure out what the issue is? I have no specialty tools like fuel pressure guages, or items of the like, but I do have many standard tools and decent mechanical ability. If one of you could literally save my A%$ here would figure some way to repay you. Please!

Your glow plug relay should not be smoking... That to me is a concern...

Check the level of your HPOP reservoir. Gonna want to stick a straw or something down in there to measure how far from the top.

Make sure to check all your fuses as well..

Im with powersmoker on checking hpop level! Do you get any smoke while trying to start it?

When I was in traffic and it kicked out it dies like someone shut off the key and a quick puff of whitish smoke with a slight blueish tint. Then try to start it and I get another quick puff of smoke. Tinker a little, charge the batteries and it runs as if nothing is wrong. Then it just dies, like someone shut off the key again.

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How do I check the H.P.O.P. level? Where is the nut to gain access? And which of the 2 relay looking devices is the glow plug regulator? The one toward the front or the one toward the rear of the engine compartment?

In front of fuel filter take of the powerstroke cover and there's a sensor wit one wire take that or the star bit plugout

H.P.O.P. was full, almost to top, but the oil is a little gritty. Why won't this damn thing start? Tired of draining the battery, waiting for charge, then starting all over.

Bad batteries and alternators cause issues like this. batteries without the capacity to hold enough amperage to run the injectors (which run anywhere from 90-120v and high amperage) fuel lift pump, and supply all your glow plugs. a high amperage demand from these components (especially your glow plugs) can cause A LOT of heat through a relay, possibly causing your smoking glow plug relay concern. since it's been heated like that, replace it. it should be the one closest to the front of the truck. the other relay is for an intake air heater. have your batteries tested

As for the alternator, it sounds like it's not charging your batteries if they keep going dead. have that tested as well. go from there and let us know what you find.

do you run a fuel additive at all? what's the fuel filter look like when you pull it out?

CHANGE YOUR OIL :scare2: Powerstrokes run on oil pressure!

The glow plug relay is the one closest to the firewall... The rearmost relay...

Are the batteries dying from cranking? why are they going dead?

Your profile says you are in Florida but that covers a lot of territory. I am in north Florida not far from Gainesville and have an autoenginuity package. If you are in the area I might be able to help you.

Yes the batteries are dying from cranking, once charged and the truck is running they stay charged. I am going to change the relay, cuz I KNOW it's smoking, I am going to change the oil cuz I KNOW it is bad. Will also suck all the oil out of H.P.O.P. and change that oil as well.

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Thank all you guys for your help so far. After charging batteries all night, they die after 5-7 cranks. Is that normal in a Diesel with good batteries? I will do the above in previous quick post. Check back later, if need be I will get new batteries.

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Also DieselDanBoy, I do not use any fuel additives. I just changed the fuel filter. The one I took out was from 1 year and 3 months ago. It was still whitish, the paper was slightly gray. I thought it was going to be dirtier when I pulled it.

ok, no your batteries should last a little longer than that. get those tested ASAP.

and thats good that your filter was that clean after that long, although you should make a habit of changing them a little more often. i know some people do it every 5k with an oil change, but personally i do every third oil change. and run a good additive to help clean up the fuel system, Stanadyne is one of the best you can get. it'll help with any fuel related driving problems to an extent.

but get the batteries tested and change the oil and let us know what you got then. while your at it drain the water/fuel seperator :tu:

you said the check engine light comes on?

Yeah the light comes on now and again, with a 5 chime 5 time warning, sometimes a 4 chime, 4 time warning? Usually does this when the engine sounds like its gasping for air, I think that is a separate issue related to the turbo needing rebuilt. Any recommendation on good yet affordable batteries? Thanks for your input here.

Die Hard, Interstate (they're a good battery but not so much on $$$), pretty much anything. DO NOT BUY DURALAST, whatever the generic Advanced Auto brand is, or the yellow pieces of $hit from Wal Mart. I know of more good brands, they're just not coming to me at the moment :argh:

can you get access to a scan tool anywhere? getting codes would really help us out here. even if all you can get is a code without a description, i have AllData and can give you test procedures and descriptions for the codes. if you go to Autozone and have them scan it for free when the light is on you should be able to get a couple codes.

you have a lot of play in the turbo? chipped/broken compressor blades?

Yeah, the numb nut fleet mechanic who worked at the company who owned this E350, put duct tape over a hole in the old resonator box. The suction of the turbo sucked a huge mass of it into the turbine blades. When I bought it I had to open the turbo and straighten all the fins as good as I could. It works, just not 100% efficient. I scanned it with an Accutron from Autozone, but it picked up no codes. That thing is a freaking little toy though. A tranny mechanic/ stock car racing acquaintance of mine has this $2500.00 Snap-On Scanner. When I bought it I scanned it with that Accutron and it pulled 2 codes, brought it to him and his scanner found like 14 issues. I will go for the Diehards. Put the relay in and did the oil change. The whole terminal post (3 wire side facing the block) was broke off inside the relay housing. Tried starting it after I was finished I only got 2 cranks and the batteries were dead. I did not have them on the charger because it was raining all day in sunny South Florida. I'll let you know what happens next. Also the H.P.O.P. only had like a half quart of oil in it. When I checked it the other night I removed the sensor to check it. When I stuck the screw driver in, their must be a lip or a tray around the top that holds some oil, so I assumed that it was almost full. I hope that IPR did not go out. I don't know man, this is my first diesel, they are complicated.:tttt:

ok good man :tu:

If you dont have any play in the shaft, buy a wicked wheel or something and replace the compressor wheel, i think they're like $100 or so and easy to replace. I can recommend a few places to get it if you'd like.

and yes youll find a better scanner can scan more aspects of of pcm or tcm and find more issues because the scanner itself is more compatable. did you write down any of the codes?

You say there was only about a half quart of oil in the hpop reservior??? your IPR could be another possibility for just about everything here except your cranking issue. your buddy with the snap on scanner, you think he'd lend it to you or scan it again? in order to check this IPR we need to see what the IPR % is key on engine off and key on engine running. if you can get what that and your ICP sensor is reading, i have test procedures to rule out what it is and what its not.

I run Die Hards, they're some of the best for the money in my opinion and i've never had an issue with them :rocking:

Diesels are not that complicated, no matter what the method is, the idea is the same. just some manufacturers do it differently, dont let electronics scare you.

Well I put the new batteries in and she still will not start. While in the dog house I did notice that when the key power is on just before final start, their is a wire harness doing some snap, crackle, pop. It is the main 24 pins or so cluster of wires that head down and Y off to either valve cover gasket plugs. It is snapping at the rear base of the main plug-to-plug module mounted near the firewall. And seems to flash slightly near the Y that heads to either valve cover gasket plug-in. Could their be a short their some where, or would it originate under the valve covers with the wires that run to the glow plugs, and injectors? I checked them last year, they were fine. Would that cause it to definitely not start? It sounds like it wants to turn over, just feels like it is not getting fuel, but ran fine 4 days ago for 4 hours. And ran last week for 3-4 days, just fine, then just stopped. The fuel bowl fills up fine, but if their were a problem with the lift pump would the pressurized side of the fuel system pull the fuel from the tank, and start? If the ICP went out would the truck not start? If the IPR is done, would the truck not start? If their were air trapped in the high pressure side of the fuel system, would it definitely not start? If their were air in their would it have run ok for a few days, then be affected, or after its running does it push the air out of the system? I know last year when I bought the truck I took it in and Ford replaced the Crank shaft positioning sensor, I think they did the camshaft positioning sensor as well, but not 100% sure, would it be that? If so would it definitely not start? Tomorrow I will remove the turbo again and see why that wiring harness is snapping. Maybe that is why the glow plug relay blew the, (3 wire side- facing the block), terminal shaft. It was completely broken away from the relay housing. If you hear a news report of a guy in Florida who stabbed himself 62 times with a dull screw driver, that will be me.:argh: Pre thanks for any answers.

ok so with the key on engine off your hearing some popping and snapping coming from the harness that leads to the valve cover harness's? probably wouldnt be a bad idea to take the covers off and check to see if you have some broken or rubbing wires. also, i know this might seem a little scary, but take the wires out of the loom (protective wrapping) and look for bare wires touching. that harness comes from your Injector Driver Module (or IDM). Im gonna say that if you had a bad wire or two going to your injector harness's that the truck should still start, but have a bad skip. a bad IDM would be a more likely culprit for a no start condition. but if your seeing a "flash" at that Y where the harness seperates, there should be a soldered connection there, check it out.

if your lift pump were not working, it would not start. instead you'd get a crank and an occasional pop or trying to start condition.
If your ICP sensor was bad, the pcm would go to a default of 720psi or so, so you have an opportunity to make it home or whatever.
If your IPR is bad and completely open, the truck will most likely not start. the oil in your high pressure oil pump would go directly to a drain and a code would be logged. if you could read the codes and give us a list, it would help trememdously.

7.3's do not have crankshaft position sensors, instead they have Camshaft Position Sensors. If the cam sensor was bad, the truck will not start. (it's a system derrived from CAT)

glow plug relay's malfunctioning is not uncommon on 7.3's, infact they go bad all the time. it's hard to say if your harness issue caused your relay to kick the bucket.

what we need is a list of codes so we know where to start

Ok brother let me get some codes, and fix the wiring, or check it out for the snapping and flashing. I really do appreciate the input.

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I am a master home remodeler, so if you have any issues with your house I will be glad to walk you through what needs done. Thanks again DieselDan.

haha no problem thats what we're here for! :c:

And thanks for the gesture! But currently I'm only 19 and living in an apartment across from my campus, maintenance is all taken care of. But if I need a hand with something Ill deffenetly hit you up on it! :tu:

But yea post the codes and I'll list for you what each one means

And if you can get your buddies snap on scanner, go into datastream or graphing and see what the IPR % is with the key on engine off, and then while cranking see what your ICP reads. post what you find

Well DieselDan, thanks for hangin in there with me with the advice. I found the problems with the wiring, it ended up being just a loose connector at the 28 pin double plug. The bolt that holds the male and female connectors together had vibrated loose. Tightened that....No Start! I had a little money left to throw at the problem. It was a craps shoot between paying for a scan, and one medium priced repair part, buying a scanner and one cheap repair part, or buying two parts and hoping for the best. I opened the IDM and saw moisture between the pin connectors, so I thought IDM. I bought one from Auto Computer Exchange (rebuilt) for $150. Plugged it in no.......No start!:humm: Went through the whole fuel system one more time, everything was fine. I could only think of three other problems, 1. ECM, 2. IPR, or 3. CPS. At this point an old principle popped into my mind [OCKHAMS RAZOR]-a principle that generally recommends that, from among competing hypotheses, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions usually provides the correct one, and that the simplest explanation will be the most plausible until evidence is presented to prove it false. I rolled the dice, went to Autozone and bought the CPS ($23), came home, installed it, put the key in the ignition....................Cranked the engine and......................:choochoo: My mind did not want to beleive that possibility because Ford changed that Cam Positioning Sensor 14 months ago. I guess the moral of the story is to try the cheap and easy first, if your too dumb, or can't afford, to own a scanner, while owning a diesel. But I thank you sir for your input and your patients. :c:

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The funny thing is, I was at the gas station just after buying the CPS. I had also just bought $5 worth of Lottery tickets. I said to myself, "God, I am at the end end here! Please either let me win the Lottery, or let this CPS get my truck running, so I can get back to work". After I plugged in the CPS, and she fired up I thought, "Well looks like I am not going to win the Lottery, but I am happier right now to have the truck running, Thanks". I put a smile on my face, reached over turned on the radio and the song playing says, "You can't always get what you want, you can't always get what you want, but if you find sometimes, you might find, you get what you need!". I thought that was fairly ironic. Well I didn't check the tickets yet, if I won, I'll let you know, ADIOS!

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NOPE!:tu:

haha no problem good buddy! Glad you got it all taken care of! :c:

Now the CPS you got from Autozone, I will warn you that Autozone electronics are fairly cheap and DO NOT last long! But neither do the original Ford CPS's. CPS's have been a common problem on 7.3's for a long time. What color was the CPS that you pulled out? Ford had a recall on the black CPS's because they would cause issues like this and shutting the engine off going down the road. They would replace that black one with a gray one, but they still have SOME issues.
An easy way to look for a bad CPS if the truck wont start, is if the Tachometer won't move while cranking. (that will only work for trucks and vans using an analog odometer, not digital)

And good thing you checked inside your IDM! Moisture combined with 90-120Volts is a bad combination haha.

Tough luck on the lottery haha, better luck next time! :rocking:

On principle alone, I would rather buy the one from Autozone than the stealership. It was the gray one, I will pick-up 2 more and keep them for spares. I'll look at Internationals site, or call Dieselmann to see who makes a good CPS. I wonder if jump starting the vehicle adversely affects the CPS. I did jump the hell out of it lately. The thing runs so nice now. The vans do not come with a tach, just the speedo in the center, fuel, oil pressure, radiator temp., and battery charge level. Oh well. As far as the Lottery, I think I am supposed to win next week. In which case I will buy a brand new F650 Crewzer, then modify the Hell out of it. :yeah:

Ok the gray one was supposed to be the "fix". The one's from Ford are supposed to be the best, the same company makes them for International and Ford. Another CPS that's supposed to be better and work is one for a DT466 (which is a straight 6), it's blue, that you can get from International. If you go to International and ask for a CPS, you need to ask for one for a T444E.

And no jumping the truck wont effect it, all the CPS looks for is an indentation or a slightly raised dot to give a digital pulse (Hall Effect Sensor). Because there is no Crank Position Sensor like on a 6.0, the CPS on a 7.3 needs to monitor where the crank is in relevance to cam position in order for the PCM and IDM to come up with fuel injection timing (because HEUI injectors are not governed by cam profiles).

And I approve the F650 idea :choochoo::rocking:

E350 7.3 Lt Diesel Battery Drain
 

I replaced all cables, 2 new batteries and a battery relay. The truck sits for a couple of days and then the batteries are dead. Can anyone help me with this problem?

tomcp start a new thread in the 99-03 forum just click new post so we dont go through an old post to see yours :w2: