2002 cranks, no start or smoke
 

Brand new to the site, but have gotten good info in the past.
I filled up with fuel, drove a quarter of a mile down the road, and the truck died. Would not start. It cranks really strong. I replaced the cps twice with motorcrafts, no fuses are blown, I pulled the icp plug, hpop is full, new fuel filter, and there is fuel flowing into the bowl

still wont start.
Its bone stock 220k.

Ideas?

have a way to check the hpop pressure while cranking? also i'm not being a smarta but you didnt fill it up with gas did you? i've had 3 trucks towed here that had been filled up with gas when we got to working on them trying to figure out why they wouldnt start.

I don't have a gauge with high enough PSI.
it was diesel... out of the green nozzle.

if you had a hydralic pressure gauge it would work as long as it had a 3000psi max. i figured that you would have found it if it was gas when you changed the filter. thats how we found the 3 that we've had come in. soon as we took the filter off we could smell the fuel. without knowing if you have enough icp pressure its going to be hard to figure out. have you scanned it for codes to see if you have any IDM codes? that oil pumps on those trucks dont go out near as often as the 6.0 pumps but they do suffer from IDM failures much like the 6.0 FICM failures.

I don't have any engine codes. I only have a scanner, though.
I pulled the ICP plug and nothing changed.

However, this morning, I found that the batteries were drained... I accidentally left the ignition on. So I hooked up the batteries to the charger, charged one, then the other until my charger said they were good, then I tried to crank. I got one good crank then click.
I went on a hunt for my Multimeter. I have a solid 12.5V on both batteries, but when I crank, it'll drop below 6V... that's across both (+ on drivers side, - on the other)

I had the same issue with my late 99 powerstroke. I was told that battery voltage is crucial on these trucks. Has to be 12volts to turn on the pcm? Although mine ended up being a dead computer.

go get the batterys check they should do it for free. sounds like its a electrical issue

so I just replaced both batteries, truck still won't start.
I popped into the fender and examined the IDM, no water evident, and the dust was dry (it was just raining here)
I cleaned and reinstalled the IPR yesterday, and refilled the HPOP.

I did notice that there is a distinct "thumping" almost like a heartbeat rhythm, coming from the engine when I crank it.

what else can I check?

i have a used IDM that you can try if you would like. just pay the shipping then if it does fix it you can pay me for it if not then you can send it back. unless you have a way to do an injector buzz test to see if the IDM is working.

Where are you located?

Really need a good scanner on it to check ICP pressures, Duty cycle, run a buzz test...

All things could be checked in a matter of minutes.

I'm in Texas, between Houston and Galveston

Thank you for the offer, cummin_un_glued, I really appreciate it.

but I gave in

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...-35-53_445.jpg

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HPOP is only moving 150psi.

If the HPOP is only making 150psi, then its an IPR issue, Injector issue or HPO pump issue.

Whats the duty cycle?

Buzz test?

dunno. Guy at the shop I sent it to told me that. he's gonna have more info/pricing tomorrow AM.

Dont let him replace parts without checking back...

Duty cycle was 65.
he did the buzz test.

he wants $1500 to do it.
$750 for the pump
$35 for the gasket
$260 for the IPR.
he said "we always repalce the IPR when we replace the pump"

Before he replaces anything I would clean the IPR...

https://www.dieselbombers.com/99-03-...l-rebuild.html

If that doesnt work then we will go from there.

If you need a new pump, and thats a big if... $750 bucks is getting bent over... As is $260 for an IPR... The gasket is reusable, I have the same gasket from 5 different motors.

http://www.dieselsite.com/1994-20037...alinehpop.aspx

Here is an upgraded pump that is 15-20% larger then the factory pump, for less then that...

Stealth Industries LLC. Stealth Pumps

There is IMHO the best pump on the market... Will power up to 300cc injectors without issue.

Way more then you need, but its also only $150 more then your guy is trying to bend you over for. It also has a lifetime warranty.

that's pretty much where I am at.
I already cleaned the IPR prior to sending to the shop.
the truck is a DD for the most part, so I doubt I need larger pump... probably be fine with a reman'd one.

I just don't have the diagnostic tools to see what was going on. But I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty...

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how will I know for sure what the issue is?

http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/mm5/me...e=F731-HPOP-TE
?

... Here is another pump... RiffRaff diesel has both the bosch pump...

Riffraff Diesel: Bosch 17° HPOP

Or the modded TE pump... I'm not a fan of the TE company, but the price is pretty damn good... and at least your buying it from Clay.

Riffraff Diesel: Terminator T500 HPOP

You dont... It still could be an injector issue. Without doing a leak down test, and isolating the HPOP from the rails you just dont know for sure....

https://www.dieselbombers.com/ford-p...tml#post537967

https://www.dieselbombers.com/ford-p...tml#post849555

I know I am overloading you with links and such, but all this stuff is in the master sticky at the top of this page.

Its good to get your hands dirty, and as scary as these 7.3's seem, there pretty damn easy to figure out with the right tools.

Home Page is where I took it.
I can only imagine the guy knows what he is doing. He came well-recommended in my area.
But I really don't want to pay him $1500 to do it, especially if I can do it myself, my real concern is that I replace the HPOP and it doesn't fix the problem.

I just asked him more about it.
He did not do a leak down.
he told me "we see three or four of these a month... it's always the pump"

and the $750 is a reman'd pump.

if I bought my own parts he still wants $500 to install them.

I have over 1.5 million miles driving and owning the 7.3 powerstroke...

In all that time I have replaced 0 hpop's that have failed. They are not problematic at all.

If he wants $500 to R&R a HPOP then tell him to kiss your arse. Thats 6 hours or more of shop time for a job that takes less then 3... And thats if your slow.

More then likely everytime he has a no start powerstroke come in he throws a new HPOP and IPR at it and it runs... Wow... Now you dont know if it was just a bad IPR, or a weak pump or a weak pump with a bad injector...

I hate parts changers...

so what would you recommend?

Tell him if he wants to be a big bad diesel tech to get the proper tools and do a leak down test.

Or pull the damn thing out of the shop, get yourself Autoenginuity

Riffraff Diesel: AutoEnginuity Total Ford Enhanced Bundle

And start testing...

If its the HPOP you can also get one for RiffRaff and still be money ahead of dickweed diselmechic...

UGH... I hate parts changers.

LOL

but replacing the HPOP will solve my no start issue?

HPOP"s get weak but dont go bad my mech said, he also said 99% of the time the hpop is not a a culpirt in a no start. I had a identical problem as you ounce and it ended up being the fuel bowl heater shrted out and blew the fuse but you said they werent blown.

so if I'm reading correctly... the injectors require 500psi from the HPOP to enable.
The pressure is measured at the ICP sensor. If that sensor is unplugged, then the truck "assumes" the pressure is 725psi, which should enable the injectors.

If I said yes, that would make me a parts changer...

I would disconnect the HPO lines, test the pump with the lines dead headed.

If you still get low or no pressure, then your problem is your HPOP.

If you get pressure then reconnect one line and plug the other and test again. If you get pressure then reverse.

That way you could isolate what head has an injector problem.

Mechanics dont change parts, or at least they used to not.

So I just went up and talked to the guy.
I asked him to show me how tested the oil pump.
so he plugs the high pressure lines with adapters, and hooks his NGS up, cranks the engine, and shows me 197psi from the ICP.
fair enough.

as far as the price of the parts. He explained to me that he gets all his parts from the Ford dealer up the road, that way, if there is an issue with them, he can just pick up another one.

I can give him my own parts, but he won't guarantee them.

Well then he tested the pump. Good

I would get it to your house and order up a new HPOP from one of the vendors above and install it yourself. Pay him the $200 or so you owe him now, get a new pump for 500-800 and still be ahead $500...