96 7.3 No Oil Pressure
 

Hello. I have a 96 PSD with a 5 Spd and have a slight problem I have not been able to get fixed.. The truck as absolutely no oil pressure coming out of the LPOP. I took the oil filter off to see if the pump was even moving any oil and did not have a drop come out. I took the oil pump off and looked it over, didn't have any excessive wear or any problems. So I put that back on and jacked the cab and the engine up so I could get the pan off and get to the pick up tube because I was told that those sometimes crack or come off. I have it out and I looks perfectly fine. There are no holes in it anywhere and we put some soapy water on it a covered the two ends and hit it with some air and there were no signs of any leaks. So now I am at a loss. I have no idea what else to check. I have checked all the usual stuff that goes wrong with these and have it narrowed down for sure that there is no LPO. Does anyone else have any other ideas? Also I was looking for the specs on the clearances on the oil pump to see if maybe it was worn too much and I just couldn't tell but I can't find them. Does anyone know what they are or where I could find them?

Thanks in advance for any help.

(This is in follow up to: intermittent-trouble-code )

Since it was driving down the road when it quit, and now there is no oil coming out of the oil filter housing, I have to wonder if there isn't a component somewhere in the oil system that can bypass or relieve all oil flow back into the oil pan. After getting it home, he filled the HPOP reservoir and it ran fine until it ran out of oil in there. While it ran, he noticed there was no engine (LPO) pressure and that is what led us to finding that the LPOP is not pumping any oil at all.

Any help you can provide with the low pressure oil pump specs or low pressure oil system design / components would be greatly appreciated.

You went so far as to pull the damper, and LPOP and not replace it? Put a new LPOP in it. Check the front cover for wear or major gouges in it.

The oil pump and front housing look so beautiful and clean we didn't want to just replace a good part... There are no gouges or marks in the gears or the housing. The truck does have just over 300K on it. But I wouldn't think it would just stop working all of a sudden like, thought it would be more of a slow wearing out?

If the LPOP has a slight crack or anything in it it will not pump. As well it is quite easy to install the inner gear wrong and loose it that way.

Other then that its a cracked or plugged oil pick up.

FOUND IT!!! But, HELP!!!!!
 

We found it!!!! But now how do we fix it? . . . .
Ok, thanks so much for the replys and info! Now for all the questions:
We got the LPOP out and it looks great. My boy even went to Ford and looked at a new one. This one shows almost no wear so I say use it again (Especially as easy as it is to change.). The housing and front cover look great too! So then we proceeded to pull the pan to see what the pickup tube was like. Before we got it out we thought it had a crack in it's side. Just jacking up the engine isn't enough to remove the pickup tube. We had to jack up the cab about 2 inches. Then jack the engine up higher (As far as it will go against the fire wall!) and you can drop the pan far enough to snake the pickup out of there. The pickup is fine (Just as he stated above). So we have been trying to find what failed. While I agree with replacing worn parts, so far I don't think any of these are worn enough to warrant replacement. The other aspect of this I had a problem with is that this was a sudden failure. The day he was driving it everything was fine (Except for a possible sensor or wire issue). Then it suddenly had no oil pressure and of course won't run anymore. This is why I said we were looking for a failure and not worn parts.
We can't seem to find any repair manuals on this. He went to the library and all of their books show what I would describe as a conventional gas engine oil pump located in the oil pan and driven by a shaft. I don't understand what that is all about. I wouldn't think that we have the only one made this way! (If I need to post pics of how this pump is made, just let me know! We would be glad to do so!)
So, we got the idea of using compressed air to test the oil passages to / from the oil pump and oil filter. When he hit the oil filter inlet as I was trying to block the pump outlet passage, I saw oil run out of the block just in front of the front main bearing, on the drivers side. When I got a light to see up in there, I could see the threads on a plug that was about 1" in diameter. I could also see the center of the plug was drilled out and had a one-way spring clip holding something in it's center. I had him hit it with air again and saw the oil splashing / bubbling from near the bottom of the threads of the plug. I reached up in there with my small finger and the plug LEFT!!! I tried to get it out with a grabber tool and a magnet and it won't fit out between the block casting and the front cover.
I feel that this is a pressure relief valve (Or whatever it is called!) and so it would be good to know where it goes and if there is any installation procedures. I would not want to pull the front cover of the engine to find out it wasn't necessary. As best as I can tell the cover has to come off to re-install this plug. But I would sure like to hear from someone that knows or has a book to read the pictures in!
Anyone have any ideas / advice?
Thanks,
Dan

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Oh, we marked the pump gears; but, how could you install them wrong? Just looking at it, it looks to be fool proof (Unless that is the gear that is marked 'Out' on one side. Only one gear was stamped this way.).

The other question I came up with was have any of you ever seen a cracked pickup tube? I have heard of some, but when I mentioned the above to my professor, he had to wonder if that isn't what was wrong with his brothers. It would loose oil prime if it sat for a few days. It it ran each day it would work fine. I think this plug could have been backing out and become very loose. Maybe it hadn't just fallen out yet. . . . I don't know.

At this point... Pull the motor... Once you dropped the pan, its done. You WILL have oil leaks out of the pan...

Pull it, put it on a stand and fix it right.

I thought they were supposed to leak! :tttt:

Truthfully, I have had pretty good luck cleaning well and re-sealing with gasket maker (the style the OEMs are using originally now days anyway). There is enough room to be able to clean in there and get it re-sealed. I think from what we have to do to it so far, that this will be one of the easier pieces to the puzzle.

I don't know: As I get older, I do like to do the best job I can but I also look for short cuts too. Seems like there is less time to be able to get all these things done. I just did injectors on my Cummins and a guy suggested I leave the fuel lines attached to the common rail and pull the them all as one assembly. That was good advice! Saved me quit a bit of time vs. having to deal with each line individually.
Since I have had good luck with re-sealing pans in the past I would recommend to anyone that it would be better than having to pull the engine out. Like I said, only because it can be done fairly simply and will save quit a bit of time. I would never recommend something if it didn't have a good chance at success though. It just isn't worth going through most things to find out that it won't work. I don't know why; but, I have a real strong dislike for having to redo something. Always have and most likely always will!

I'll see you in a few months...

I live by a different motto...

Do it right, do it once.

Pull the motor, flip it, clean and seal properly.

I know very little about what is involved with doing this repair.
For me, a decision is seldom black and white. I always try to consider the risk/reward.
If you are working on your own stuff and think you can do it by cutting corners, consider the reward if it works. If it doesn't work, are you really risking that much? What you learn by being wrong or right may be worth the risk alone.:humm:

I don't know what I said here to start with; but, I like to do my own work because I try to do a better job or do 'extra' on everything I do. I really hate it when you have to redo something (Whether it was someone else that did it or myself). I also hate it when there is 'collateral' damage. There is no reason to do something (ANYTHING) and cause more or other problems. This is why I'm done with the warranty on my Cummins. I figure from now on I will just do 'it' myself. . . . .

But: enough with the thread de-railing!! We came here to solve a problem so let's get back to it!!

We got it apart and found where the plug goes. Here is a pic of the plug:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...StrokePlug.jpg

It goes in the front (timing) cover on the drivers side. Here is a shot of the back of the cover and the red arrow points to where the plug threads in:

Attachment 47110

This will fix this engine. But, the only problem is that this plug doesn't appear in any manuals I can find. In fact, most of the manuals I found show the inside of this engine different than how it is. The lack of documentation that I can find so far is a bit disturbing. I even talked to some people that work on these and they didn't know what this plug is or what it is for. It is no big deal, but I just have a curious mind and I want to know the 'why' and 'how' of things.

So, if you have any ideas or can point to a manual that would be great!
Oh, and as far as replacing the LPOP, I would seriously look at the front cover first. It is the back side of the pump and is the only aluminum in the pump. That will be the first part of the pump to wear.

Alright, you all keep the sunny side up. Hopefully in a little bit, we can hear this one run again!! Wish us the best . . . .

I'll have to look at one of the front covers I have when I get home... I dont recall that being there...:humm:

He did it! Had it running around 11PM and is out right now on a test drive. How about that! Way to go RocketMan!! I knew you could! May it run another 300,k for you without further problems. . . .
Dan (aka Dad!)

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I would appreciate it. It seems strange it isn't in 'the books' and other guys I've talked to who work on these don't know what it is or that it is there . . . . (I guess we mentioned that most repair manuals show a LPOP in the oil pan similar to what a gas engine would use). Just seems kind of strange. I also can't figure what this 'device' is supposed to be for. Any oil pressure from the LPOP would seat the ball, sealing it in and can't allow pressure to relieve. It is simply just a ball and it's retainer in there. Who knows . . . We both think someone has been in there (Front cover and oil pan) before. I have to wonder if 'they' didn't leave that plug loose. But then I can't really figure why they would have been in there either (Well, not exactly or for sure why).

But thanks for all you guys help! It was sure nice to hear it fire again. He is pretty excited to have his diesel back. He likes his gas p.u. but I think he likes his diesel p.u. a lot more!! Maybe the rest of us can relate to that sentiment.

i have the same issue with my 96 f350 with thae plug coming out of the back of the front cover i fished it out of the oil pan and was just wondering if their is supposed the be a spring in there with the checkball

I'm sure there isn't. In the pic above you can see the ball and the retainer. Both on this one seem to be in great shape and we re-installed it and it is working just fine. In fact, we didn't refill the HPOP reservoir and just cranked on the engine in hopes that it would prime and lube the oil system before the engine tried to run. It had oil pressure on the gauge very quickly when we started cranking it. We only cranked about 15 or 20 seconds each time to not heat up the starter. The engine started on about the 3rd time of cranking on it.
We never could find out what this plug is called or what it does. . . . If yours looks good (The ball has no marks or scores in it) then I would throw it back in there! Hopefully yours will work great also. I think it will if it isn't damaged any. Apparently all it does is seal in the oil when there is pressure from the LPOP. The ball seals and keeps oil from escaping out the 1/8" hole in the top of the plug.

Let us know how you make out. My son was over in Jamaca and his wasn't started for weeks. He started it today and said it started fine! :yeah:

from what the ford and international dealerships called it it is an air reducer valve and they are now obsolete but u can still order it through an international dealer you can also go to ford and they have a printout of it with the international part number:c:

Ouch!! There really is a difference from one to the next . . . . They led us to believe that there wasn't any info on this and that they had no clue what it was . . . I even talked to a tech that we know there and he led me to believe that there isn't any documentation on these engines or vehicles. He said everything they use now is online and a product of All Data. So far from what I have seen, it reminds me too much of a Chilton's.
Thanks for the info! It makes sense too. Any air would just escape past the ball and then when the oil comes it would seat the ball and allow oil pressure to build.
I am still at a loss of why this plug could come out. The plug is steel and the cover is aluminum. Every time I put a steel bolt in aluminum it seems to tighten up over time and can be very hard to remove. I suspect someone had been in this engine so you never know what they forgot to tighten or what not..... At least it us running like a top again! I will have to admit, I am pretty impressed with it so far. But then if you look at my sig you can tell I do like IH's products!