Intermittent Trouble Code
 

I have had a developing problem with my 96 PSD throwing a trouble code but not keeping it. What I mean by a trouble code is the Check Engine light coming on. It only throws it at random times when I have the truck in higher RPMs and am mashing the pedal to the floor. The light will come on for a while but then go right back off. I have gone in and had it check for codes and they find nothing. I was hoping someone might know of a way to make the truck keep the codes so I can find out whats going on? I just recently installed the ICP Resistor Mod but aside from that my truck is completely stock. I don't know if this has anything to do with it but my truck has had a 'stutter' problem a couple times as well. I will be driving down the road at a cruising speed or accelerating normally, it doesn't matter, and the truck will all a sudden have an instant and very violent jerk. It is like the engine instantly looses fuel and then has it back a split second later. It has not ever turned the check engine light on when it does the stutter so I have no idea if these two problems are related. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Without knowing the answer, or guessing at it, I would try removing the single modification to see if the problem persists. Do you get trouble code p1111 (system pass)?

More then likely you are using a generic code reader which will not read PSD codes.

The codes you will find is P1211... Due to your ICP mod making the HPOP work harder and the PCM throwing a code because of it. Its not hurting anything, its showing you that your ICP mod is not the proper way to build more HP in the PSD.

Well I have a new problem. My truck completely died on me yesterday. I got a real code reader on it and I got the P1211 code like you said. I also got 2 other codes, P1280 and P0340. P1280 says the Integrated Control Panel Circuit is Out of Range Low. And P0340 says the Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Malfunction. I am working on getting P0340 fixed but I have no idea what P1280 is... I can't start the truck right now at all. All it does is crank over doesn't fire.

P1280 ICP Circuit Out of Range Low

ICP is not control panel...

ICP is Injector Control Pressure...

Pull your 10k mod. Its bad or wired wrong...

Thanks for correcting me... I pulled the mod as soon as this all started, no difference. I am sure that the mod was wired right and am pretty sure it had no effect on this happening. I am thinking now that the ICP is bad. I hooked a scan tool up and it said the ICP voltage was between .17 and .20 and I am told this is bad and needs to be between .20 and .25 volts. I am trying to figure out what the ohm resistance is supposed to be so I can test that and make sure the sensor is bad before I go dropping 160 bucks on it... Would anyone happen to know what that would be? Thanks for all your help!

What makes you think it is the sensor and not the valve or the pump or the oil?

I thought it was the ICP because the scanner said it was out of the voltage range. Doesn't matter now, I broke the ICP Sensor trying to get it out to test it. It has a brand new one in it now. Nothing has changed truck still cranks over with no tries to fire. I check for fuel at the injection pump, plenty there. I am out of ideas. Anyone have anything? Thanks in advance for any help.

remove one of the caps on top of the HPO res and see if there is oil in there.

Then you need to have a scanner that can check HPO pressures when cranking. My guess is you have a bad IPR...

I checked the HPOP res today and it was out... Filled it up but the truck still didn't start. I will have a scan tool tomorrow to be able to check for HPO pressure. How can I test to see if it is the IPR? And will the IPR just stop working all of a sudden and cause the truck to not run at all? Thanks for your help!

Yes it will. Happened to me just last week. You can remove it and clean it. Here is one of the links that might help...

https://www.dieselbombers.com/ford-p...tml#post402332

Thanks man! I will try this tomorrow. Did this fix yours?

I have three spare IPR's, the one that quit on me the other day I just swapped out for one I have clean.

I will clean this one and I am sure it will be fine. Just takes the smallest little piece of crud to stick it.

p0340 is cam position sensor. I would say the most likely culprit and easiest fix for a no start.

CSIPSD: I did the whole disassemble, clean and reassemble to my IPR with no results. Truck still just cranks over...

twinboys: I just replaced my cam sensor at the beginning of this problem and my tach is working just fine... I haven't scanned the codes since but I am pretty sure I solved that issue.

Now that I cleaned my IPR I am really stumped. Any other ideas?? Thanks for all your help!

See if it will fire on ether. Make certain to disconnect the glow plugs. Make sure you are getting at least 100 rpm while cranking (minimum required for computer to fire injectors).

You need at least 450psi of HPO to fire the injectors. Starting on ether means nothing.

Time to get a scanner on it. Need to know whats going on. You said you broke the ICP sensor. Did you get a new one of those?

Need to know what your HPO pressure is when cranking.

Need to know what your duty cycle is when cranking.

Anyone around you have a good scanner or Auto Enginuity?

Yeah no, I am not going to throw any ether at it. I don't need to bend any rods and ruin my engine for good.

Yes I did get a new ICP on it the day I broke it. So that should all be good. Still had the original at 300K miles so maybe it was about getting time for that anyways... I will have a nice scanner on it tomorrow that'll tell me all so I will get it on there and check and let you know what the numbers come back with. Thanks!

Just for referance. The injectors will NOT fire without 450psi of oil pressure.

I had similar conditions and checked everything we could think of to check including everything mentioned in this thread and many more. A small shot of ether and it fired. A second shot and it fired and ran. It didn't run perfect, but at least we could perform other tests requiring a running engine. A shot of ether applied to a CRANKING engine isn't going to bend a rod -- just don't get stupid with it... Try it or don't, Just trying to help.

As I eluded to earlier and have harped on in other threads, Do you have good fresh engine oil with the proper anti-foaming agent? This turned out to be 90% of my problem. My synthetic (very extended drain interval) Amsoil was depleted of said agent. It showed above the minimum oil pressure to fire, but wouldn't anyway. Firing on ether probably spun it faster enough to create higher oil pressure.

Okay. I got the scanner on it. I am not sure what it would call the HPO? It has two reading on it that I think might be it; Injector Control Pressure Abso and Injector Control Pressure. Could one of these be it or are they for something else? They both stay at 0 when cranking.

The IPR Duty Cycle is at 15% with the key on and jumps to 55% when cranking. Is this good?

Also when I pulled the codes of from trying different things and cranking on it the past couple days it had code P1280 which says ICP circuit out of range low. What could this mean?

I see what your saying with the ether. I know it could not be my oil because I don't have over 5k on it and it's regular not synthetic. And the way it just died I would think my oil could be the problem. Everyone I've talked to says the truck starts running real rough when your oil is getting too bad.

Thanks for all the help guys!

New sensor, good oil with an api rating of cf-4/sh or cg-4/sh or higher, good ipr valve (assumed good), must be the pump. I suppose the ipr valve could be shot. I will defer to CSIPSD. If it is the pump, this would be an excellent opportunity to upgrade. I believe a p1280 can mean the sensor is reading no (or low) oil pressure.

The two icp's reading zero are probably the same thing, one reading in voltage and the other in psi. this would be the 450psi minimum mentioned. Not sure if the ipr duty cycle tells you if the valve is good or not.

I would replace the IPR... Sometimes even when cleaned they are just junk.

Ford makes a nice block off kit that allows you to test without buying a new IPR, but it costs more then a new IPR.

Throw a new IPR in there and you should be good to go.

Okay I have a guy that's going to let me test my IPR in his truck to see for sure if it is bad. Ford wants 260 for a new one so I want to make sure it's bad before I just throw the money out there and replace another good part. I also happen to break my orifice going between my filter housing and my FPR so I guess I'll be getting one of those kits and putting a new one in.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

I have another question for you guys. I didn't get to test my IPR today, hopefully tomorrow... But with my IPR out my dad and I decided to turn the engine over to see if any oil comes out of the hole where the IPR goes into the HPOP. Is this a bad sign or is that perfectly normal? I have no idea so any help would be great. Thanks!

it should have oil coming out of it... Do not do it much as it will pump more air into the HPO system...

Alright, I got my IPR in a friends truck, works just fine. So I put it back in my truck, buttoned everything up, poured oil in the HPOP reservoir got it nice and full. Crank the truck over, cranks for quite a while then the truck starts. Runs for about 5 maybe 10 seconds at the most and dies. I got back to my HPOP reservoir it is now empty. So apparently the HPOP is just not getting engine oil. I am afraid this means I lost my main oil pump. Would this be true? The 'idiot' oil light never moved during cranking and when the truck started.

Ok, sorry I missed asking you a few questions last night:

Are you saying you had no engine oil pressure when it started?
I heard it start for you. It ran rough while it ran, but I would say that is from having air in the fuel system from having everything apart. . . .

I wish I knew more about these engines. If you get air in the fuel filter / FPR, will it work it out of the system by cranking / running the engine?

Doesn't the engine oil pump supply oil to the reservoir for the HPOP? What keeps this reservoir full or controls how much oil is in there? Is there a regulator or check valve or does this mean the main oil pump failed? (I don't think I have ever heard of this happening to a healthy engine. I know for a fact that he hasn't rev'ed this engine while it was cold. When it failed it was warmed up and he was taking off. . . Maybe you should tell us how hard you were taking off . . . :pca1: How high of RPMs were you shifting at? If you were at cruising speed when it died, how long had you been in high gear?)

Since it started with the reservoir full and ran for a little bit, I think we can assume that the fuel system and HPOP are functioning correctly. I just know you don't want to pull the oil pan off checking the oil pump to find out there is a line or regulator or check valve that went bad. Hopefully the problem is external to the engine.

The only other things I can think to add are:
When it cranks it seems to turn very fast. Recently we replaced the glow plug system and cleaned all the battery cable connections. I am impressed with how fast the starter turns this engine over. And at just over 300,k I think this engine is pretty sound also.
I did have him spin the engine when we towed it back (from where it was: "Found On the Road Dead" . . . I just had to :w2: ). I wanted him to spin the engine to aid with turning and braking as well as seeing if it would throw the same codes again. He didn't spin it that much and I wouldn't think that this could have hurt anything or caused the HPOP reservoir to be empty.

Hopefully this adds enough info to help diagnosis this one. If not, ask away and we'll find out the answers. It would be nice to have this one running again. . .

Sounds like you lost the LPOP...

Unplug the IPR again and then remove one of the plugs from the HPO res... Have someone crank and see if you get oil out of the hole... If not, you have lost the LPOP...

Okay, I know that doesn't work because it's not filling the reservoir at all. Is there anything else that could've gone bad? And is there any other way to test and make sure the the LPOP went bad? I want to make very sure before I go pulling the engine to change a good oil pump...

this may sound dumb, but have you checked the fuses? Had this happen to my old 96 and it was a fuse that turned out to be the fuel heating module. Check for blown fuses. good luck

Dont have to pull the motor to change the LPOP... just remove the belt, balancer and there is the LPOP... Not an easy thing to get to, but on a scale of 1 to 10... its about a 6...

Yes I have gone through and checked all my fuses. Everything is working fine but for the HPOP not getting oil... I would just like to know if there is anything else I can check because I wouldn't think a oil pump would go out like that and just quit? Thanks for your help guys.

We need an update on this!
I think this is where he is:
The LPOP isn't putting out any oil. He filled the HPOP reservoir and the truck started and ran for 5 or 10 seconds. The gauge on the dash indicated no oil pressure and the truck died after those few seconds. Then the reservoir was empty.
I feel that for it to fail somewhat suddenly that it would seem like the pressure regulator for the LPOP would have most likely failed. He is right though that for the past couple of weeks the truck ran poorly a few times so who knows. Maybe the LPOP failed and was getting weak near the end and was causing the truck to run poorly intermitently. I think we stated that the first time it ever missed a beat was just like you had shut off the key for half a second while driving and then moved it right back to the run position. It did that a coupld of times several weeks ago. Then the last two weeks it was running or so it would be running along fine and then start bucking and sputtering for a few seconds before clearing up and running fine again.
I wasn't sure what to tell him. Right now he is going to try a different filter base to see what that does. He was able to take his IPR and run it in another truck so it seems to be ok. From what he could find, the pressure regulator is built into the filter mount / base.
When I looked into the HPOP reservoir as he cranked it over, there was no oil flow into the reservoir. So, I don't know what to think. Maybe the LPOP has failed completely. Have any of you ever heard of this or experienced it? I told him I wouldn't think it would fail (In a healthy motor anyway.). I wonder what happened to the rest of the engine in all of this . . .:pca1:

Hey guys. Sorry it had been so long. I just got back in town from vacation so now I am back to trying to fix my truck. I just got started on it today. We are positive from the other stuff we have checked out that it is something in the low pressure oil system that is wrong. So since it was the easiest I took the oil pump out today, everything on it looks fine, no excessive wear or anything that looks like it could cause it to stop working completely. So my next guess is the oil pickup tube. I am told that I may have to pull the cab and the engine to get the oil pan off to get to the pickup tube. What I am wondering is if anyone on here may have done this before? And if anyone has, what is the best way to get to the pickup tube? Thanks for all your help!

When was the last time you changed your oil. If the oil gets old it can cause problem with foaming and your hpop will act weird or quit working. Some times changing the oil dosnt get rid of all the problem and you need to put an anitfoam additive to the oil. You can get it at an international truck dealier

I didn't have more then 4000 miles on the oil. I know for a fact I had absolutely no low oil pressure. I even took the oil filter out and cranked the engine over and didn't get a drop of oil out of it.