Labor difference between bulletproof kits?
 

It is getting to be time to think about installing a new EGR cooler and oil cooler in my 2005 F350. I want to go with bulletproof products.

I know that the fully bulletproof kit that includes the new egr cooler and the external oil cooler is about $2,100, which is quite a bit more than going with their Ford replacement cooler and new egr. What I don't know is how much more the labor is (on average) to install the kit with the external cooler? Anyone with knowledge or experience with regard to the costs to install the two kits?

I really like the idea of knowing I'd never have to do another oil cooler, but if the cab has to come off the truck and it's much more expensive to install I may just go with the Ford replacement cooler and the bulletproof egr and make sure my coolant stays clean. I have a Sinister coolant bypass system that should get delivered on Monday.

Any and all advice or approximate range of installation costs at a shop would be most appreciated.

ON EDIT: Looking at the installation instructions on the bulletproof website it says that the installation of their fully bulletproof external cooler is very similar to replacing the stock oil cooler, so I am guessing the labor may not be too much more. I am thinking it might be worth the extra $1,300 or so to never have to mess with the oil cooler again? Or does it make more sense to run a coolant filter and go with the stock oil cooler after a good flushing?

The time difference between the 2 should be a wash, with the old cooler having to be disassembled and cleaned properly before reinstallation, both setups you have to remove the intake so..... with the bulletproof setup everything is new and can be installed as soon as cleanup of block mounting surfaces is complete and th mounting of the air cooled cooler is pretty straight forward. A delete for the EGR cooler is always the best idea, What area are you in. do you have testing?

Thanks Bob. I live in eastern Washington, in the desert. We don't have testing, but I am concerned that we may end up with it. Reading the bulletproof website it sounds like doing the delete will cause some type of EGR fault message if the truck has a newer flash in it. I don't know if that is a big deal or not? What is the biggest advantage of the delete, does the engine run cooler?

The Bulletproof website says about 8.5 hours for the average mechanic to install one of these kits. Does that seem reasonable?

With a coolant filter is the upgraded Bulletproof EGR and a stock replacement oil cooler adequate, or do you feel like the external oil cooler upgrade is worth the $1,300 or so?

The truck will only throw a code if you remove the EGR valve, you can leave that in there because it won't do anything, if you want to keep the cooler in place you can just plug it with a freeze plug. You drive a 35mm freeze plug into the inlet side of cooler and put a solid gasket with a thin sheetmetal backer/to support gasket/ at the intake side. The EGR cooler is now a dummy cooler, best part is you don't have to buy a new cooler, if you tackweld the plug in you can even use a cooler that was allready ruptured and it would work.
The neg. side of deleting EGR system= NONE
The pros. better fuel milage//better turbo spool up// increased acceleration// cleaner intake //no getting stranded because EGR valve failed//
To answer your question if its worth it, to me NO, how many miles has the the stock cooler worked for you? after dooing the flush and by adding the coolant filter you should at the very least double the number of miles out of it. If you are still interested in a remote setup there is another company that uses the stock cooler as a remote so it is still water cooled but they use a real coolant inline filter, not a bypass filter which is better. Look up IPR , innovative performance Research, If you ask me the bulletproof is way too exspensive for what it is. I did complete headstuds, oil cooler and all gaskets needed for less than there kit.

The truck is right at 105k now, and my delta's are right at the 15 degree spread.

To me one of the most attractive things about the remote cooler is that the oil temps are supposed to stay quite a bit lower. It sounds like it also eliminates the problems with the stock filter and the plastic detent deal that can break, and if it does, oil is bypassing the filter.

ON EDIT:
This is from bulletproof's site:

¹ The common belief is that 2003-2005 model 6.0L's will not trigger the check engine light. However, Ford's newer software updates now check for insufficient flow through the EGR and will trigger with an EGR delete. Keep in mind that if you have an earlier version Ford 6.0L and have had it in the Ford dealer in the past few years, your ECM (computer) has most likely been updated to the newer version of software. Also, if you ever take it in to Ford in the future, perhaps for an airbag safety recall of some sort, your ECM will be updated then. So while an EGR delete may not set your check engine light today, it is very much a possibility in the near future.

It sounds like the updated Ford software will cause a non functioning EGR to send a code? They talk elsewhere on the site about needing a tuner or something to get rid of the code.

My truck hasn't been reflashed sinse 04, I refuse to let Ford do any flashes, it is my truck so I have the right to refuse the flash, if it is out of warranty you have the same right. My buddy got his truck reflashed in 05 and it cost him 3mpg so I refuse. The only downfall to the stock cooler is that you can't filter the coolant before it enters the cooler, that IPR setup takes care of that though. The only time I ever heard about the plunger failing is when someone used the wrong filter and did not completely seal the plunger and allowed oil to bypass. Iv'e added up all parts needed to do the same thing they are doing and it seems they are charging more than half the cost for that special housing . A good flush and keeping tabs on the coolant filter should make the stock setup nice and reliable.

Thanks Bob. Certainly something for me to think about for sure. $1,300 is $1,300. I do like the idea of the oil running cooler though.

I wouldn't really count on it running "cooler" though the idea seems nice. It's not like these trucks run really hot anyways. Plus you're in Washington. If you were in Africa running through the desert day in and day out, I could maybe see the benefit.

The bulletproof unit is very nice, and a good peace of mind, if you've got the coin.

I'm rebuilding my junk soon here and I'm going with an OEM oil cooler re build kit. $231 seemed easier to spend than $1300.

As for the EGR delete... yes, delete it. FWIW, even 03/04 trucks that have newer flashes I haven't really seen any CEL's thrown for the EGR. Delete it and see what happens. Worst case you get the CEL on, then just buy an SCT with some custom tunes to get it off. :tu:

Welcome to DB!

I live in Washington, but in Eastern Washington, in the desert. It get's hot here, 100+.

I think what I am going to do is get my coolant filter installed this week, run it for 1k miles or so and see what it looks like. Once it's cleaner I'll do a flush with Restore and Restore Plus and run as long as my deltas don't get crazy. Then I'll replace with the bulletproof EGR and the updated OEM oil cooler. Does that seem reasonable?

I would like to delete the EGR, but I live in an area where emissions testing probably isn't that far way.

Sounds like a good plan of attack for sure. FWIW, everyone I've seen do a flush to clean their oil cooler out ended up rebuilding/replacing anyways, since it just clogged up again in no time.

There was a neat write up somewhere floating around where a guy bought two of the fumoto drain valves, installed them in the coolant drain ports on the block and even backflushed his cooling system with his garden hose. It was really cool. I'll see if I can find it.

The reason I was thinking I should do a good flush before replacing was to get all of the gunk out of the system that I could before putting on a new oil cooler and EGR. I was thinking I would install the filter, check it in 1,000 miles and keep checking it until it seemed pretty clean, then do the flush and run with a filter as long as my deltas were okay, and when they started to rise a bit, then have the new stuff installed. Does that make sense, or am I looking at it wrong? I figured after the flush the filter might catch some more stuff that was potentially broken free when doing the flush, though I know that most of that will probably come out with the flush water.

Any thoughts or advice on the best way to proceed would be genuinely appreciated.

Your plan sounds good just like that. I just thought you were under the impression the coolant filter and flush might fix deltas that were already going out of spec. It does, just for a short time usually. I would do just as you're planning. Do the flush first. Then add the filter, then run it like that and see where your temps end up. Doing the oil cooler shortly after isn't a bad idea. You may even want to run on DI water for a few trips and flush it out a couple more times, just to make sure. Hopefully your filter will catch any debris from the install.

Thanks Mdub. I just talked with a shop that 2-Stroker recommended in Oregon. I think I am going to have them do an EGR delete, a new OEM cooler, and the ARP head studs. They said it saves quite a bit of labor on the EGR and cooler when the cab is off for the headstuds, so I might as well do those while it is at the shop. Hopefully I'll get at least another 100k or more out of the next cooler. If we start having diesel emissions testing I will have to have them put a bulletproof EGR cooler on.

ON EDIT:

The Sinister coolant bypass was just delivered by UPS. I was thinking about putting that on prior to my flush to start getting some of the sand and gunk out of the system, and then closing the ball valves when I do the flush so I'm not running everything through there. Does that make sense, or should I wait until after the flush to install it?

Just keep in mind the whole problem with the sinister coolant filter is that it is filtering the coolant AFTER it passes through the Oil cooler and and the EGr cooler so I would do the flush the best you can before the install, you want to get most of the sand out before you put the new oil cooler on or you will be clogging that up too, the internal passages of the oil cooler get sandblasted and can cause a rupture. If you want to see how much stuff is in the coolant you can take the pisser tube off the intake and add a longer hose to reach the floor and put it into a bucket, we would run the truck and let it fill with about a gallon of water then add it back into the degas bottle through a funnel with a shammie in it as a filter, we got about a 1/8 cup of sand out of my sister's truck. just have 2 buckets and keep rotating, we added 1 gallon of water to the mix so truck wouldn't ever be low on coolant while we were doing this. we ran about 25 gallons through it. when you put the new cooler on it flush it again because the old cooler was probably keeping some of the bigger stuff from making it through the narrowed passages.

I should be okay mounting and using the Sinister filter prior to my flush though, right? I figured it might get some of the gunk out of the system prior to the flush, and then when I do the flush I'll close the ball valves on the sinister during the flush, and after the flush and refill I will open the ball valves and run it for a while prior to the installation of the new cooler so that it can get any additional stuff broke loose during the flush.

Yeah, that will work, anything to help remove particles is a good thing, I would have a couple of filters ready, you can get them for $10, It is just a Wix filter, 4909 I think, While doilg the flush I would have it hooked up as an inline filter instead of a bypass filter so you filter all the coolant that passes through the hose instead of a small portion of it, wouldn't leave it like that full time but while doing the flush it would help out alot.

How would I hook up the filter as an inline filter? It looks to me like the inlet and outlet are too small on the filter head to handle the full volume of coolant. I was thinking about closing the ball valves during the flush, do you think it would be better to leave it functioning during the flush? I have a couple of extra filters I ordered with the kit.

Thanks for the help. Please keep it coming. I want to do this right.

Try that trick using the buckets, saves those $10 filters for when you are driving, if not leave the valves on when doing the flush, you want to get all you can while doing a flush and not all the junk will come out of the radiator. I don't have a coolant filter so not real sure of the sizes of fittings, but basically you don't use the Ts, you go from the pisser tube on top of manifold to coolant filter then from coolant filter to degass bottle, the only reason they do it as a bypass is in case the coolant filter gets clogged it won't stop the coolant flow, it will just go right to the degass bottle.Inline filter is alot more efficient at getting the debri but would have to be maintained religously.

Have you tried that Bob? That filter is NOT designed to filter that amount of coolant, it will just tear the filter apart.

The reason they do it this way is because there probably isn't a filter in the world designed to handle that amount of coolant flow and still filter, or at least it wouldn't fit under the hood of the truck. Same thing with our oil filters. If anyone has ever heard of the "degranged" truck with the 6.0, you'd know that probably $20-$30k went down the tubes on a 6.0 because the wrong oil filter was used, it was a filter meant for bypass systems and was being used as a full filter. It blew the media apart and sent crap all over in the system. Trashed the motor.

Now maybe I'm wrong, but the info to figure it out should be all over the net. Figure out what the 6.0 flows coolant wise. Then get the filter specs, see what it's rated at for flow. I'm not even going to bother wasting my time because I can almost guarantee any filter that is small enough to fit on that kit is NOT going to be a full flow design. They specifically make them this way so they can filter finer. You can't filter finer and still maintain full flow, thus the bypass.

That makes a lot of sense. I was just looking at the filter head and there is no way it could pass the full flow, and I have no doubt that you're right that the filter couldn't take the full flow.

Trusted Performance...... - PowerStrokeNation : Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum

Good read on what the wrong type of filter will do and how quickly you can lose months of build time and thousands and thousands of dollars.

So Bob, I would just be careful doing this and ensure that the proper style filter is used. However, even if the filter is capable, are the tiny lines feeding the coolant bypass filter large enough to support that kind of flow? Me thinks not... :humm:

If you have ever pulled that pisser tube off the intake you will see it doesnt pass alot of coolant anyways, plus there is a second path for the coolant to flow back to the water pump through the manifold. I am not talking about the main water line, I am talking about the 1/4 or 5/16 line that comes off the top af radiator and goes directly to the degass bottle, that is the line they are using for the bypass is it not??

On a bit of a separate subject, what type of sealant should I use on the threaded connections on the bypass head? It came with teflon tape, but I've ready it's better to use a paste type sealant. Anything in particular you would recommend?

I always use the tape, just make sure you don't go past the threads on the leading side so pieces don't get into the cooling system, teflon paste is good but takes a long while to set up.

Then it's still just a by-pass filter.

I used the teflon tape, no issues here.

I will use the teflon tape too then. Thanks for the info.

I really want to get a good flush after I've run the filter for a while. I don't want to be one of the folks that gets a new oil cooler put on only to not have delta's improve and clog up the new cooler too.