Clueless female diesel owner! Please help!
 

OK, I have a 2005 F250 with a 6.0. I never had any problems with this truck till about 2 months ago. My brother changed the oil (synthetic) to Delco 400, 3 weeks later the truck acts like it is not getting gas, eventually dies and will not start again until it cools down. I took it to the dealership and they replaced the FICM, left dealership and 5 minutes down the road the wrench comes on. I took it back to the dealer and they said it was not showing a code. Eventually that day the wrench went away. 3 weeks later the truck is doing the same exact thing. Now they say it code P012F and the head gaskets could be cracked (no smoke, never got hot, not using alot of coolant). The EOT is 238 and the ECT is 192.
My questions are 1) Is this hot enough to effect the head gaskets?
2) Could the change in oil have anything to do with it?

Any advice would be helpful, my husband is in Afghanistan so I'm all alone trying to figure something out about a subject I have no idea about.

Thanks

I doubt the oil change had anything to do with it... speaking for the oil itself. Who changed the oil? What oil filter was used? Some of the aftermarket oil filters cause some major issues. There is a button in the bottom of the oil bowl that the factory filter pushes down when it's sealed in there, and it allows the oil to come into the bowl to be filtered and passed on. Some of these other filters, especially the ones with their own caps, don't do this, and have cause serious issues. So that is a possibility...

Your ECT and EOT are not good, they should never be more than about 15 degrees apart. Classic signs of a clogged oil cooler, which an in turn lead to blown headgaskets or a blown egr cooler.

Is it hot enough to effect the gaskets? Hard to say.

What mods are on the truck? Is there a programmer?

Hat's off to your husband for protecting our country and hats off to you for trying to fix this truck on your own!

A coolant filter would be a big help for the future, they run about $120, one of the cheapest and most worth while investments on a 6.0. What happens on these motors is the block itself is sand cast from the factory. Over time these sand particles break off inside the coolant passages and find their way into the tiny passages of the oil cooler. The oil coolers only job is to regulate the temps between the oil and the coolant and keep them close to each other. As it becomes clogged, it becomes harder and harder for it to regulate these temps. This is probably what you're seeing now.

I feel bad that the dealer replaced, what was probably a working FICM, and at what? $1000? I bet it was close to that.

Any more info you can provide about the truck could be helpful too. :c:

just a couple more questions, how many miles on truck, any when you say hardly using any coolant does that meen you add coolant over time? just asking because I have added 1qt in 240k miles. when it is at operating temp and you shut it down will it start up after a couple minutes sitting or do you have to let it cool down first? this would be caused by a fitting on the high pressure oil pump found on the 05 trucks.

Truck has 73,000 miles and is completly stock. Put 1/2 quart of coolant for the first time about 1 month ago. It will drive fine for days then all of a sudden it will start to die and when I push on the throttle it does nothing and eventually dies, turns over but will not start. The next day it starts fine and will run great again for a while. I've only had this happen twice. The truck when running never gets hot or shows any signs of there being a problem. The dealer siad "the oil cooler is not cooling the oil and the truck shuts down when it gets to hot as a safety measure" if this is the case then how could it get so hot as to ruin the head gaskets? Doesn't make sense.

Everything I'm seeing is suggesting to put an upgraded oil cooler on it, could you suggest a certain one? Also should I replace anything else while we are doing the cooler?
The oil filter I last put on was from Napa, should I get a specific type?

The information I'm getting is very helpful and I really appreciate it.

What coolant did you add????

dexcool?

the filter from Napa/ did it have a new cap on it allready, or was it just a filter element??

Make sure the coolant you use meets the CAT EC-1 standard. Dexcool doesn't really tell us much (not anything good anyway).

The P012F ccode confirms a clogged oil cooler. The loss of coolant along with the code almost guarantees a leaking EGR cooler. Both need to be replaced.

If you have a lot of cash to send (and want the best setup), you can install the BulletProofDiesel oil cooler (it is air cooled).

Either way, you also need a BulletProofDiesel EGR cooler OR an EGR delete.

Head gaskets can become an issue if you drive it w/ coolant leaking into the intake (from the leaking EGR cooler).

I chose to keep the EGR system and only install the BPD EGR cooler. I do not have an issue w/ the OEM oil cooler (and I even like the Ford Gold coolant - I just watch it like a hawk!).

Eventually I will switch from the Ford Gold coolant to the Shell Ultra Extended Life coolant (EC-1 rated).

Also - a coolant filter is a VERY good thing to have. Casting sand sloughing off is known to plug up oil coolers. The Ford Gold also can "gel up" and plug oil coolers. No one has adequately explained the Ford Gold gelling cause yet - some have it and some don't.

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BTW - when you are into the engine for the fix, also upgrade the high pressure oil pump discharge fitting (ie replace the STC fitting), install upgraded dummy plugs and standpipes, install the updated turbo oil drain pipe ..... and you will be well on your way to a VERY reliable engine (assuming you have not compromised the head gaskets due to driving w/ an EGR cooler leak).

Oil cooler suggestions
 

Does anyone know of a good oil cooler somewhere in between the stock and bullet proof oil coolers? What about the semi bullet proof package?

No such thing, just put a stocker back on and a coolant filter, you'll be fine. The stocker is fine, if you can keep the block castings from clogging it up.

I do not buy into the whole Ford Gold coolant sludging crap up and clogging the oil cooler, I believe it to be grade A bull. JMO! :c:

The things that CAN cause the Ford gold coolant to sludge up are mixing it with normal green antifreeze, a big no-no, and using a charged filter for the coolant filters. I've seen this more than once and then guys automatically point fingers at the gold coolant.

Yet, no one here can explain why none of the ELC coolants everyone is using do NOT MEET Ford's specs for coolant.... posted this info a while ago and no one had anything to say about it.:w2:

I agree with you Mdub. Lots of folks (me included) run the Gold coolant with no issues (94k miles). That being said, I am conservative and will change it out every 50k miles and DEFINITELY use distilled water. Several folks running the Gold coolant are heavily tuned and still running with the stock EGR system - so they are definitely giving the coolant a temperature "work out".

Ford does say that head gasket leaks can cause a reaction between the coolant and the combustion gas though. This reaction does form the gel that folks see. So ... the Gold stuff CAN have issues, but it seems that the issues most likely occur in conjunction with something else. So, while I agree that mixing coolants is not adviseable, and I agree that you have to use the proper additives ............... I suspect that head gasket leaks and EGR cooler leaks also contribute largely to the issue.

Furthermore, I have heard of two cases where the red ELC coolant has gelled up also. So, NOTHING is fool proof and trouble free.

Hopefully the OP is not using Dexcool. While Dexcool is technically an ELC coolant, I don't believe it is properly rated (ie EC-1) for diesel service.

At that temperature spread between the oil and coolant I would be more worried about sticking the pistons in the bores than the head gaskets.

The pistons are cooled with oil. The cylinder is cooled with the coolant. If the oil gets hot enough the piston can grow larger than the hole it's in. That is bad.

You might get by with doing a oil cooler but trust me the repairs wont end there. The 6.0 will nickel and dime you to death. I have seen to many people get in financilal hardship over that motor. Trade it off and get a reliable engine if you can.

I had a 05 6.0 Soon your turbo will go out, you need to put in a fuel pressure gauge because when your fuel pump goes out it will take out all your injectors. My best friend has replaced 24 injectors just because of fuel pump failures. That is only 9000 right therev:ouch:
Head gauskets are goiing to run you around 3500 to have them done.

I have seen multiple makes and models cost people THOUSANDS. It can happen to any of them. Maybe the 6.0L has a bigger share, but who knows for sure ..... lots of good ones out there. No need to listen to "doom and gloom" posts at this point IMO.

It is very important to get the NAPA oil filter out of there. Aftermarket filters have been the cause of many issues (no starts, reduced oil flow, etc), although your problems seem to be more significant.

With the oil cooler code, please do not drive it. You do not want to rupture the oil cooler - that gets BAD. If you MUST drive it, do so only after changing the oil and filter and flushing the dexcool out of it (unless it was EC1 rated coolant). I know you said that your hsuband just changed the oil, but the wrong filter was used. 15W40 Rotella diesel oil is fine since you do not know how much engine work you will soon be having (Rotella is usually a little more reasonable in price). Get a motorcraft oil filter (Walmart sells them).

One thing is you MUST find a dealership or independent mechanic that you trust. Most likely the previous advice regarding appropriate repairs is sound (oil cooler, BulletProof EGR cooler, address leak areas in the high pressure oil system), but that is why you need to trust your mechanic. Just so you know, Hummin Cummins was correct on one thing - these repairs are not cheap, but neither is "dumping" a vehicle that isn't working and then buying something else.

First dealership concerns:
1. they did not pick up on the oil/coolant temp differential earlier (it really isn't hard to do)
2. they did not take action on the loss of coolant (even though you say it is not a lot)
3. they changed out a FICM - apparently with no codes
4. You have some signs that might indicate a small leaks in the high pressure oil system. Apparently they did not mention that or do any tests for it (did they?).

Does the truck have gauges (how are you reading the oil and coolant temps)? Any mods (like a chip or tuner)? I assume it still has the EGR system?

Thanks guys!
We are going to install the bullet proof oil cooler and egr. Now they are telling me that the water pump may need to be replaced. Again no symptoms. They are quoting me 1600 just for the water pump which I could see if they were not already in there to replace the oil cooler. Am I way off base here? How much is a water pump?

My truck is payed for and I really like it. My intention is to keep it for a long time even though many including the ford dealership where I bought it are telling me to dump it. It would be nice if they would just honor their product!

Any other suggestions on what I should do to the truck for longevity would be great. I've already learned quite a bit. Thanks again!

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No mods on the truck. So far it's completely stock. Should I put additional gauges?

I just did a water pump on my 03 550. it has the 6.0. My truck would run average temp it only got warm whem i pushed it. i bought mine at auto zone for 100 bucks or so, i compared it to one from ford and its pretty much the same.

The water pump (part # 4C3Z-8501-AC) is $160 at TousleyForParts.com.

IMO the price seems quite high because installation is not all that hard. The only thing that might make the price reasonable is if they would find cavitation damage to the front cover and would replace that also.

Don't forget about the STC one-piece fitting, dummy plugs, and standpipes (at least have them test the high pressure oil system). Once all of this is taken care of, you should be in great shape!

You need to find a new mechanic. You may check out BPD's preferred installer list. They should know all the "ins and outs" of the BPD install

BulletProofDiesel - Darn-Near Bullet Proof Diesel Products for your 6.0

Getting rid of the EGR cooler with a good delete kit while you replacing oil cooler is a most excellent idea as well as upgrading the HPOP STC fitting

Since, your female I would highly reccomend taking your truck to a mechanic or different dealer with whom you feel comfortable with or have positive references, no offense but I've seen many woman who get ripped of just simply because mechanics take advantage of them which is very wrong. It's happened to my girlfriend, mom, grandmother and close friends. Dealers will tell you to dump your current vehicle simply because they can take your truck and fix it sell it for more than they give and have you buy a new one they make money off of.


Strokin' Away

Guys, this is from August...

So? You are saying we are slow learners? :nope:

No, just slow posters! :tttt:

The OP hasn't even logged on to DB since sept 05 2011... I'm guessing she got her answers and is long gone!

Yard I didn't notice that until much later, but proof pos, that I am truly, slow,!!!

Maybe s l o w readers.