Want a baseline dyno.
 

Hey guys,

Anyone know of a good place near Terre Haute Indiana to dyno my truck? I would like to get a baseline before making any changes.

Keith

I don't know where there is one near you, but I do know this: either get a dyno flash to lock 5th gear (1:1) as well as locking the converter, or find out what correction factor that they are using for an OD pull. If you don't lock the truck into 5th, it will shift into OD on the rollers and skew the numbers. Places like Power Hungry Performance use a dyno flash for the transmission.

If the dyno operator has no idea what you are talking about, go somewhere else. Getting the numbers in a 1:1 transmission gear is Dyno Operations 101.

Wow, just read the 5r110w section of 6.0 PowerStroke Page

It just managed to confuse me even more! The quoted gear ratios you see on most web sites are:

3.11:1, 2.22:1, 1.55:1, 1:1, 0.71:1, and reverse is 2.88:1

From reading the transmission section of the above web site, it is my understanding that the transmission operates as follows.

It sounds to me like the transmission has three dedicated forward gears 3.11:1, 1.55:1, and 1:1 and uses the overdrive in conjunction with these three gears to give 6 possible gear ratio's, using two separate shift patterns depending on temperature.

Warm pattern is 1st = 3.11:1, 2nd = 2.22:1 (3.11:1 with .71 OD), 3rd is 1.55:1, 4th is 1:1 and 5th is 0.71:1 (1:1 with .71 OD). Overdrive is used to give two of the five used ratios, for 2nd and 5th gear.

Cold pattern is 1st = 3.11:1, 2nd = 2.22:1 (3.11:1 with .71 OD), 3rd is 1.55:1, 4th is 1.10:1 (1.55:1 with .71 OD), and 5th is 0.71:1 (1:1 with .71 OD) Overdrive is used to give three of the five used ratios, 2nd, 4th, and 5th gear.

I see why we don't have a 6 speed pattern though, not enough difference between 1.10:1 and 1:1 to make it worth using both in a given shift logic setup. Any idea why the "cold" pattern uses the 1.10:1 4th gear instead of the 1:1 4th gear? Seems silly to have a dedicated shift pattern for that small amount of ratio difference.

In my old world of turbocharged Mitsubishi's dynoflash was a program used on the engine computer to program ignition timing, cam timing, boost pressure, and fuel curve... I take it this is something totally different in the Diesel truck world?

Thanks,

Keith

PS: If I was going to make a 6 speed it would be with the following ratio's:
Granny 3.5:1 only engaged in tow mode
1st 2.49:1 (3.5:1 W/OD = 2.49)
2nd 1.9:1
3rd 1.35:1 (1.9:1 W/OD = 1.35)
4th 1:1
5th 0.71:1 (1:1 W/OD 0.71)

1. 1,2,3,5,6 TC lock with cold shift being 1,2,3,4,6 TC lock: correct. While I have not tested it, there are grumblings that a 6-4 downshift is used.
2. Yes, OD is used in 1st, 3rd, and 5th.
3. Your gear ratio plot would require different planetary sets to achieve the 3.5 and 1.91 ratios. Also, your 2.49 1st would hurt in town mpg over the current 3.11 1st gear. It would take more grunt to get rolling.
4. As a wise man once told me, "It's easier if you don't fight it!" The 5R110 is one of the best production transmissions available.
5. A "dyno flash" for these trucks is EXACTLY what I said it is. Just about everything you did with rice grinders dosn't apply here. Most of my Mustang stuff doesn't either.

3. I was just throwing out ratios without researching actual gears needed. Using the same planetary set and getting as close as possible to 3.5 and 1.9 would be fine. As far as around town milage is concerned, make the 3.5 available all the time, not just for towing.

4. I'm not building a tranny :) One of the reasons I chose a Ford was the good reputation the transmission has :tu: I was just saying that if I were designing a six speed auto it would have similar ratio's to the ones I stated with very close spaced ratios other than the 1st to 2nd gap.

5. I take it this is a temporary adjustment to the transmission... hard to drive away locked into 1:1 with the torque converter locked :D
Thanks for your help,

Keith

You've opened yourself to the pandoras box that is the 5R110. Most people never even understand how they work or what's inside, quite the creature there isn't it? You seem to have a good grasp on it.

Sometimes the truck will downshift from 6-4, depending on throttle input, oil temps bla bla bla, whenver the PCM sees fit. From my understanding it doesn't do it a lot, but on occasion it will if it thinks it needs that slight gearing advantage. The reason for the cold shift pattern the way it is, is because the the 3-5 shift can't be done reliably when cold. The trans uses electronically controlled, hydraulically actuated solenoids. When cold the fluid just can't move fast enough to make that 3-5 shift. My understanding is it's a tough shift to make anyways, and I'm sure a few guys with some hard miles and tuners will tell you that shift will flare on them sometimes. The GoGo direct drive solenoid upgrade is a good fix for this.

As for dyno files for tuning... they're a good idea. I likely wont dyno my truck again without one. Hard to really load it up without it shifting all over the place. The tune basically makes the first gear changes really fast, so you start out in 1st, but you're up to 5th in no time, then it basically just holds it there. Lets you really load it up and get it rolling hard. I would suggest one, just to eliminate issues. I've seen quite a few 6.0's dyno in my day and if you're not at a dedicated powerstroke shop you'll likely leave frustrated.

Also... terra haute? Seriously.... Scheids Diesel is right there...:c:

Just got into Diesels, didn't know anything about them. There is no mention of a dyno on their web page...

Keith

I'm sure they can point you in the right direction. You're likely to find some very interesting things when you start doing google searches that have "Scheids" and "Terra Haute" in the same sentence.... LOL

Perhaps a certain girl?

No desire to actually view the video, but a guy at work was obsessed with it. :argh:

Keith

LOL bottle girl. You're not missing anything by not seeing it. What has been seen, can not be unseen!!!

Give the guys a Scheids a call though if you want to have it dyno'd.

Crap!

I finally got around to calling Sheids and turns out that even though not advertised on their web page, the Effingham, Il location has a chassis dyno. Talked to the guys there about locking the transmission into the 1:1 ratio and locking the torque converter.... he said "we can push the tow/haul button" with a questioning tone of voice :argh: I will keep looking.

Keith

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Good times! I am scheduled for Feb 8th at 1:30 for a baseline dyno at Danville Performance in Danville, IN. They are busy as hell (a good sign in my opinion) and they do have the software to lock the torque converter and lock it into the 1:1 gear ratio :jump:

If everything goes well, I will dyno my Dodge Conquest there at a later date before doing my performance modifications to it as well.

Later,

Keith

I'd be curious to see if it lets the trans up shift to 5th then hold it, or if you have to run that dude up from idle in 5th gear. Seems like the latter would lug the motor and make for one hell of a smoke show.

Let us know.

It's probably something where it starts off normal and upshifts early to get you into 5th... not sure myself. I will let you know.

With modern computer controlled transmissions it seems like it would be easy to set up a manual control system... would a diesel truck look silly with paddle shifters :s:

Keith

I'm telling you, save yourself the trouble and order a dyno tune from Innovative. I've never seen anyone be able to just lock and hold 5th gear. The only way I know of is through tuning and it doesn't lock 5th gear at all, they just make it shift way early through all of the other gears so 5th is the widest gear and it just tends to stay there much easier. I will not dyno my truck again without one. Last dyno event I went to I watched 6.0 after 6.0 get on there and every one had it's problems with upshifting, downshifting, unlocking converters etc...

If you don't have a dyno file at a bare minimum you need a race tune that has the converter locked. I'll have to get the vids up of mine on the dyno.

Sort of confused here. It sounds like a tune from innovative diesel can lock the torque converter and make the transmission run through the gears up to 5th... but does not lock out overdrive? Or does it lock out overdrive? :s:

I don't have a tuner of any kind, the whole point is to get a base line before doing any modifications. Are you saying I should get a tuner (leaning towards SCT livewire TS) and pay for a custom tune that leaves the stock programing other than locking the torque converter and making it shift sooner? Isn't that sort of a wast of a custom tune?

When the dyno operator said they they "have the software" to lock the torque converter and keep it in 5th I sort of assumed they use a turner that does this just for baseline dyno sessions and then put it back to stock.... but I may be wrong.

Later,

Keith