trying to help out
 

being a master trans builder for 20 yrs I have been trying to join a few tranny forums to sell of some stuff cheap but yet I have to make multiple posts to get this done anywhere I join so far. SO I am open for all questions to get the posts I need to get the number up so can sell my stuff and it is cheap so will be helping a few guys out with some great deals. So ask away guys. I have been doing this most my life and have seen it all. So have a flare? a weird shift problem or wont to beef it up and what works and what is just fluff ask and I am your open book so I can get 25 posts in and post the stuff to sell. Just please do it so I can get posts and I will help all that ask and if dont know I work with 12 other guys I am sure one of us will get you where you need to be.

Well first of welcome to diesel bombers... Im just gonna ask, Ive got 254K on a 47RE Transmission never been rebuilt, but what are the true week points of these transmission have changed and adjusted the bands every 70K Still going strong had a bad ground and the TC was hunting but that was an easy fix..

Wow that is really good and fact u have kept up with it has been the reason. Typically the front band wears gets loose no one checks starts to slip clogs filter takes out the whole tranny. Othe big thing we see is the converter issues the hunting and slipping and converter clutch fails clogs the filter and same thing takes the trans out. I build around 5 a week where I work and put 3 sonnex valves in them for more durability and better shifts and converter clutch holding. A full flow manual valve for lube in park and neutral. A pressure reg that is also full flow and gives boost of pressure and converter spool valve that makes the clutch hold better and brings it on a little different for durability. I see factory band struts broken bent in the pans often also. For big power 900 plus lbs torque the input shafts snap off especially when using a billet triple disk converter where the sonnex billet input comes in handy. Also the filters behind the solenoids clog and cause shifting and pressure problems. That many miles I hope u have put all new ones in it once if not twice as the little screens clog easy. That is a biggie for shifting and pressure concerns. I keep them on hand as that important to keep clean and go to a better Borg Warner pressure reg to keep crap out of it causing resistance issues with powdered metal on the magnets giving it false readings. Other then that they are a beast.

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Oops it's early thought u said 48. On 47 the aluminum rear planet is also a weak point. Steel and 6 pinion on the 48. I have seen some factory ones break from alumin cracking.

from what I typically see for a mild to medium power build, an upgraded converter and valve body go a long ways for holding power...

for moderate to extreme: converter, valve body, flex plate, input and output shafts all need to be addressed. and definitely avoid shifting in lockup... that is the #1 cause of broken billet input shafts... people going to race and they let it shift with the converter locked with just absolutely slams the gears...

other than that it sounds like you are doing well with your trans...

Welcome to D.B. I have a manual trans, so the clutch is all I have had to replace so far.

I have seen trucks that two very heavy loads 5th wheel stuff break stock shafts twist them off clean at the drum. No shifting with converter locked but trucks that have banks kits high power stuff. We have had two at the shop past 6 months that let go leaving a traffic light just pop and both are two vehicles for companies that move cars across states. We don't see many drag vehicles but do see a lot of high modded 4x4 and tow vehicles. I dont do any kind of shift kits in them every core I get in seems to have a trans go kit and is blown to pieces. I just do the 3 sonnex valves and some get a reg spring kit. That goes a long way for holding power as we dyno our trans on house so I cn see what kind of pressure rise how much cooler flow is present at a given rpm also. So I can pretty much build these and others like e40d 4l80 4r100 to any spec by doing tricks I have come up with seeing actual pressures and flow in time on the dyno. So basically I know what works and what doesn't as I can load a trana to the point it fails and find the weak link. It is what we do to build the best we can for every application. We ship all over the us and over seas so our stuff has to work and know it will before it goes out as shipping can cost near the price of the transmission and that could kill a company eating shipping on stuff that won't work. So want to build something specific you won't find any where better than I can as I have proof and research behind it. So if I recommend it I know it will work for u and do what it should. Like having 50 years of experience. Pretty cool stuff for sure having all this at my job.

Awesome Reply, in all honesty I dont know If I have a 47 or 48 underneath the truck to muddy could not find the tranny plate..

you have a 47RE.

48RE didn't start till 3rd gen common rail engines...

Wondering , I have a 95 Ram/ Cummins .... will the shafts from a 47re fit in to a 47hr ?
Or should I locate a 47re and go from there ... I do intend on building 500 hp at wheels ... mostly for street , but it will also tow as well , I'm just wanting to do this right and not break anything... too expensive to screw around and blow money out my arse ...LOL

or should I just hunt for a 2wd 48 ?

My truck is 2wd ... almost for go to add that .. :tu:

The Dodge 47RH and 47RE heavy-duty automatic transmission
 

To answer your question, I have some information that may be of some help. It is my understanding the the shafts are compatable, but I would contact Dodge to confirm. The concern may be in the stress capability since the 47RH was designed for a gas engine with less torque than the Cummins.

Looking through my records I found this information below that may be of some help. See what you think.

---------------
The Dodge 47RH and 47RE heavy-duty automatic transmission

A heavy-duty four-speed Torqueflite® transmission designated 47RH was used on Ram 2500 and 3500 models with 8.0-liter V-10 or 5.9-liter Cummins Turbo-Diesel engines. It had a torque capacity of 450 lb-ft and supported trailer towing capacity up to 19,000 pounds GCWR - the highest ratings in the industry for a one-ton truck.

The 47RH included a torque converter with lock-up clutch, a hydraulically operated three-speed planetary transmission, and an electronically-controlled overdrive unit. Overdrive could be locked out with a button.

The 47RH transmission was created by upgrading the 46RH transmission and the overdrive unit. Base transmission revisions were:
• Input shaft enlarged 0.070-inches at the torque converter clutch oil feed hole
• Torque converter clutch oil feed hole shot-peened inside
• Pressure angle on spline between the intermediate shaft and the front planetary gear unit changed from 37.5 degrees to 30 degrees
• Fifth pinion added to the front planetary gear carrier
• Reverse band widened and changed from single to double wrapped configuration
• Reverse servo unit revised
Case casting and machining redesigned to accommodate internal changes noted above
Overdrive unit revisions included the following:
• Ninth disc added to overdrive direct drive clutch
• Output shaft governor shaft cross hole shot peened to increase fatigue life
• Output shaft selective annealing process revised to allow governor shaft cross hole to remain hard
• Governor drive key changed from semi-circular "Woodruff" to a 1/ 4-inch square to reduce stress on the shaft

As with previous Dodge truck automatic transmissions, a switch on the instrument panel allowed the driver to lock out overdrive when carrying or towing heavy loads.

The torque converter clutch engaged at highway cruising speed to improve fuel economy. The converter clutch was not previously available with the diesel engine. The V-10 and diesel versions of the transmission had unique shift schedules due to their vastly different torque curves.

The 47RH was replaced by the 47RE. (The 4 was the number of gears, including an overdrive; the capacity rating of 7; R for rear wheel drive ; and H for hydraulic control, or E for electronic control, though the substitution of “E” for “H” was more of a coding change than an engineering change). The primary difference between the two automatics appears to have been the name, since Chrysler press materials noted that even the 47RE had hydraulic shift control (other than the overdrive, which was electronically activated in both automatics).

The 47RH and 47RE were reserved for V10 and Cummins diesel engines.
Gear Ratios:
• 1st: 2.45
2nd: 1.45
3rd: 1.00
4th: 0.69
• Overall Top Gear Ratio:
o 2.57 with 3.73 axle ratio
o 2.82 with 4.10 axle ratio


Original is at The Dodge 47RH and 47RE heavy-duty automatic transmission The Dodge 47RH and 47RE heavy-duty automatic transmission

I have a 2007.5 Dodge with an auto (68rfe) do you have any thoughts on these as to what they can handle for hp/tq? What do you think about "electronic" mods, H&S overdrive programming for example?..

I would love a 68 in my truck ..... wonder just how hard that would be to accomidate ? :humm:

Ok a quick question to add to your count. An old mech. tale says that if a previous owner never changed tranny fluid in the truck you just bought, and it has 200,000 miles or some high number your better off not changing fluid ever because it will soon ruin your tranny.
When pressed nobody can say exactly what will happen to cause failure. Can you opine about this. I have heard this from several fleet type mechanics, but they were not transmission specialists. thank you :humm:
dave

Here is exactly what happens. New trans fluid has a high detergent level to help keep stuff in the pan and not sticking all around the inside of the tranny. A reason the magnet is so important becuase when new fluid is kept in place it washes all the metal and clutch to the pan and in turn a good magnet will catch most of it so the filter won't clog. When u take a neglected trans it gets all that stuff and it starts to stick all over then u change the fluid and stick the new detergent in there and it washes all that crap back to the pan and it starts clogging the filter any screens in place in the valve body the solenoids take a beating with stuff sticking to magnetic parts that throws resistance levels off then it won't work right. High pressure low pressure stuck valves bam it burns up. A reason the flushes are ao bad it does the same thing just faster. I have seen a car get flushed and not make it down the road and back home. Most times that is a death wish. I have done it but after the first change did two to three more complete filter fluid changes over the next 500 miles. Basically kept opening up until it looked clean but sometimes it can take a while for stuff to bust loose. The best way in like a 48re is remove the valve body and clean it by hand with brake clean then spray up in the trans let it run back out as u can get up around the case in the corners where metal deposits and bushing wear can build and catch it all then before you even rerun the trans. Not all are that easy but if u can access it then clean it that way is the best way. I also advise changing electronics soon after a change just to be safe. I keep like 8 sets on hand of dodge re trans solenoids just for that reason to sell and recommend to people doing services that are over due. Hope this explains is for you.
Joe

thanks for info. Would it be a good idea to place a strong magnet on pan for awhile before any service to collect as much crap as possible first?
dave

68RFE Specs.
 

The input shaft, UD shaft, OD shaft, output shaft, UD clutch, OD clutch, 2C clutch, overrunning clutch, and the entire planetary geartrain were all designed to handle the 650 ftlbs of torque from the 6.7-liter.

Also, pump capacity was increased to improve fluid flow through cooler, greatly reducing overall transmission heat. The 68 was engineered from the ground up and “supersized” to match the power stats of the 6.7-liter Cummins.

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The interface to engine is similar (bell housing bolt pattern), but the 68RFE uses a separate transmission controller. The 68RFE controller interfaces with the engine controller for exhaust brake operation, etc. Therefore, retrofitting the 68RFE into a 5.9-liter truck is not feasible due to incompatibility with the 5.9-liter engine controller. Also, the 68RFE is fully electronic compared to semi-electronic 48RE.

Not only that but they make a in line filter that has a magnet on the outside of the case that works great for something like that just run it a few days pull it and service it.

RE: fitting a 68 into a 5.9:
With enough money, anything is possible. Someone out there has made a tranny controller for that application. it might be a one off, but it's probably been done.

Sorry didn't get a auto notice about the 68rfe question showing up. I build both transmissions and while they both have a bunch of aftermarket parts available I see a lot more broken 68rfe trans in big trucks over the 48re. On the inside the 68rfe is just a 604 transmission that the parts are bigger. It even uses the same type valving in the valve body. So a trans that was designed for a mini van they have taken it enlarged the parts and put it behind quadruple the torque load. The 48re is a copy of the famous 727 which was behind hemi big blocks drag raced for years in near stock forms and lived behind highly modified motors. So from the ground up the 48 started as a better trans. We get a lot of these over the road guys through out shop that use their 3500 duallie to tow huge car haulers something u would see behind a semi almost pulling in upwards of 8 cars on the back and they can see 100k miles in a few months. The trucks are crazy modified. Banks parts big turbos programmers one even has some bigger displacement engine in it and the 48re models 07 down are the preferred for this job. Besides the 68 just failing as a whole and burning up they tend to break planets and input shafts. The 48 will normally have a gov pressure sensor issue then lose pressure and inturn burn up. Failure is caused by electronics that were left unchanged too long. The way to have this not happen is go to a gm style pressure sensor by dnj. It is more reliable that way and way less failures. I know this is long winded I could go on and on I build these every week I specialize in the larger diesel trannies but build everything. I personally own a 2500 chevy with an Allison they just don't break I do one or two a year at a shop that does 100 different models a month. This will make some people that have paid for a major rebuild sick but and dodge rfe model trans is bought as a cut out. A low mileage working unit and taken apart cleaned and resold. They normally fail so bad they are too expensive to rebuild so we scrap them. The 45rfe is bought for 40 bucks. This is a working trans. The 68 is 100 to 200 depending on where they get it. That is how many are floating around in salvage yards. We can't touch a 48re core for under a grand sometimes buy broken cases with good guts at 1000 bucks. When fresh built right they just live a long time. So for anyone to even want to stick a 68 in place of a 48 just baffles me. Yea two more gears but that alone doesn't justify the swap as the 48 is the much better trans. I also have a 07 Tahoe with a 4l60e. They are known to break and not be the greatest for big power. I am building a 6.2 with a supercharger for it and know in that heavy of a truck it will be breaking planets and stripping the drum. So I am updating it to the 09 6l90e which is 100% stand alone from the engine. When you have the tcm on a stand alone from the ECM anything is possible. I have seen the 6l80 or 90 I'm camaros and corvettes behind 1000 rwhp live so going that direction makes sense. The 68rfe has terrible problems wearing pumps and valve bodies quickly causing flow issues with cooling and pressure just not what u want in a big truck hanging over your head. Why we replace and don't build them from customer cores. And again all over the place here watching tv and doing this one phone. I just like to go with what is proven to work it is what always seems to work out best.

you're telling me that a 68rfe, a transmission put into a rwd truck, is a bigger version of a 604?
a transaxle dating back to the 90s?

I think you're getting the 42RLE, and 45RFE mixed up. . . Honestly. the RFE family was introduced in the late 90s. The RLE was a heavily modified ultradrive that was tossed into the Jeep Liberty.

the 68RFE is a heavily modified 45RFE/545RFE.

I could be wrong though.

Yep that's what I am saying it is an oversized version of the very out dated 604 which you are correct is the same as a 42 rle. The 42 rle is the same piece for piece with a 606 trans turned for rwd. The rle trans does have updates but over all it a large version of the pos 604 and why so many issues with them. The 604 and 42 rle have had cooler flow problems from day one and so do the big boys. Anyone that has ever been inside one will tell u they look very familiar. Same style over drive under drive packs and planet design. There is also a 62te which is the 6 speed version of the 604 lets not forget that turd which also had planet problems. That is the main reason I would never own a dodge product personally well newer one any way the transmissions are the worst in the business and run neck and neck with the ford 5r55w and s series that we do the most of in the shop as they have the most failures. What few performance cars dodge does offer they stick a very dated 6 speed version of the 90s 722.4 which is now 722.6 like charger if the v8 if a 6 it had the terrible 42rle like the jeeps and they also fail like the jeeps with massive planet failures. Any hemi car has that mecedies 722.5 or 6 depending on the year which is another weak tranny. I see stock cars destroy them so would be terrified to put anything like boost on the car and even think for a moment the car wouldn't break which is terrible as the new challengers are very sweet rides. Just no hope to keep that trans alive as no aftermarket out there for them really. My opinion dodge has been going backwards on trans technology and had been trying to patch old ideas. If anything they should have updated the re series to 6 speeds that would have been the way to go and not take a 604 style trans and put it on steroids and think it wouldn't have similar probelms with just making it larger. I could post some pics next time in a 68rfe take the main drum and 604 drum and side by side and make you guys that have big trucks sick. Big trannies Allison is only way to go even the gm 4l80e based on the 400 has big issues overdrive planet failure last place to get lube first thing to melt down. Ford e40d and 4r100 5r110 also have issues common failure points but the Allison 1000 is a beast can take 1000lbs torque all day long and not break a sweat. I saw a ford f450 not sure the year but had the powered by Allison on front fenders so maybe they are taking after gm and getting smart. I see a lot of things most guys never heard about doing so many transmissions in a year plus the other 12 guys seeing what catastrophes cross their benches. I also get some of the latest and greatest updates and why I started all this to try to pass on a little knowlege and always looking to learn.

Agreed -- Dodge has been going backwards on trans
 

It1z -- I could not agree more regardiing the 68REF transmission. That is the main reason I sold my 2008 Dodge Cummins was the 68REF, and the emission issues of the 6.7L for 2008.

Frankly, of all the Dodge Cummins we now own, I agree the 48RE has been to most reliable, and trouble free. The 47RE is okay for a stock 2nd Generation Cummins, but for our modified Cummins ('99.5 & '02), definitely had to "beef-up" the transmission and drive train to handle the torque at 800+ ft-lbs.

Thanks for the detail on your posts. It's great to read facts, not subjective reviews. The team (Utilmate Transmission in Garden City, Idaho) that built the transmission for the Boise State University Green Speed Chevy S-10 Cummins built two 47RE transmissions for me. For the record, BSU Green Speed set a record for a 3rd Generation 5.9L Cummins at Bonneville Salt Flats at 215 MPH in that little S-10.

Check it out:
Boise State Greenspeed Team Burning it up at Bonneville Salt Flats | citydesk | Boise Weekly

part numbers on the solenoids would be great and who do we get them from my 48RE has 160k and gets serviced every 30k

Email me if need solenoids I have a few sets left
Lt1z350@bellsouth.net

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changed tranny fluid now my trans slips from first to second. it only does it when I first take off. where are the screens I should of cleaned. all I did was change filter and fluid and adjust bands. I have a 2001 dodge ram 2500. thanks

If you adjusted the band the front band that the adjustment is external to the case that is your second gear maybe you just want to loose with that how did you end up adjusting it? If you email me directly in a be easier for me to respond to you quicker with my phone I believe my email is up in the post earlier Lt1z

I have a 2010 2500 with a 68RFE. The truck tows a 12,000 lb fifth wheel, 4,000 miles round trip, once a year, and plows a mile long private road. Since new the trans has slipped when downshifting from 6th to fifth. During a 65 mph downshift (on cruise, while hauling) the rpms jump up to about 2800 and after a few seconds shudder down and lock in at 2200 rpms. My local dealer got tired of my complaints and replaced the torque converter, valve body and filters under warranty. The downshifting is now smoother - slips not shudders. I have taken up manually downshifting at the base of hills or powering down and manually downshifting mid hill. This isn't why I bought a diesel!
Is this slippage normal? What else should be done (while under warranty?)

For that heavy of a work load I hate to say it but that trans is going to tear up. Believe it or not dodge had to limit the power of the cummins engine specific to what the 68rfe can handle. I do a lot of them and typical failure is OD clutch just gives up. It is a very thin set of single sided clutches and they get hot one time (like u did) then they warp start to drag and just burn up on normal driving. It is a terrible design they all do it and no one has a fix yet. Trans go makes a decent shift kit that does help but don't do that until warranty is up. I can get you a part number I do it to every one I build here at work. Honestly I am sure you like your dodge but for that kind of work the only truck that can handle it and not fail is a chevy or gmc duramax Allison combo. The Allison is heads and shoulders above all other one ton transmissions and only one we don't see failures on that often. We do over 100 trans a week here where I work huge place in fl and we maybe see 5 Allison 1000 a year vrs say 200 48re 50 68rfe 200-300 e4od 4r100 5r110 and even now seeing a lot of ford 6 speed failures which they said was compareable to an Allison and they burn up just as bad as early 5 speed fords. Chevy was smart and went to a trans that was built for trucks hauling way more then any 3500 truck will see. Dodge did offer a 12k option of the Asian seiki that is a good trans but hard to find and really only see in the bed delete trucks that turn into tow trucks mostly. I would keep complaining until they change the whole trans. Work it hard and break it before that warrany is up so they have to do it or u will be stuck out of pocket. If u keep up that line of work get a gm vehicle and never worry again. Lt1z350@bellsouth.net if need to reach me direct to ask other questions.
Joe