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VP44 - P7100 conversion
I was trying to find a link with a explanation but cant find one.
Does anyone know what it takes to convert |
Yes you can put a P7100 on a truck that once had a VP44. The main reason its done is to take advantage of the mechanical controls and the only ones who usually go about doing it are big time pullers who need a Cummins to spin upwards of 6000 rpm. The P7100 is the only one that can do it.
First off the injectors between the 12V and 24V are different and have different pop off pressures. The VP44 is actually able to deliver higher injection pressures so you would need to find a manufacturer to make a 24V injector pop off at low P7100 pressures. The pump drive different and the timing case is different. The P7100 requires the mechanical lift pump that comes with the 12V trucks. This is driven from a lobe on the 12V trucks camshaft. Your 24V cam doesn't have the fuel pump lobe. So you need a new cam, new timing cover, custom 24V injectors designed to operate at the low P7100 injection pressure and lots of cash! The P7100 is a great injection pump and is very versatile. Its durable because it is lubricated by engine oil unlike the VP44 and the CP3 in 3rd gen trucks. However a conversion is pretty cost prohibitive if you are not pulling and trying to get the best of both worlds with the rpm and fueling capability of the P7100 and the flow of the 24V head. You can buy a lot of VP44's for what it takes to convert to a P7100 so you are best to do just that but build the system properly where Dodge left off. |
You don't need the mechanical lift pump, you can run an electronic pump like an AirDog or FASS. Other than that, Whits spot on...
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PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS
here is a link that has a kit that includes almost everything. not inludeing a p pump and certain parts that are tuck/pump specif. it is about $1800 |
Its not too terribly hard to do. Pump, timing cover and injection lines are the big ones. Any reputable diesel shop should be able to shim the injectors and set the pop pressure to what you need.
Injection lines run about $500-600, The cover is going to run you probably $200-500 depending on where you get it, and the pump is going to be the expensive part, Remanned pumps go for 900-1000 with a core charge, so you'll need a core pump, or have to pay more. With all that said, the vp44's that are now available can keep up with many p-pump conversion and are very capable of producing the kind of numbers most anybody needs. And infact, stock vp's can yield numbers most people are happy with. The reliability is the main issue, and you can buy a few VP's for the cost of the conversion. Sean |
i talked to a guy who was going to do the swap and he had figured up, talk to a shop and priced everything he was going to need and he told me he was going to be able to do it for about $3500 that was buying a built pump he found on the internet for about 1300
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It really depends on where you find the the parts, and how hard you look for them. The lines are the one thing you're going to have to buy new, not to many people get ride of those after they make the swap.
Sean |
Originally Posted by Whitmore
(Post 294045)
Yes you can put a P7100 on a truck that once had a VP44. It is very expensive (10k~12k easy) and its tough! The main reason its done is to take advantage of the mechanical controls and the only ones who usually go about doing it are big time pullers who need a Cummins to spin upwards of 6000 rpm. The P7100 is the only one that can do it.
First off the injectors between the 12V and 24V are different and have different pop off pressures. The VP44 is actually able to deliver higher injection pressures so you would need to find a manufacturer to make a 24V injector pop off at low P7100 pressures. The pump drive different and the timing case is different. The P7100 requires the mechanical lift pump that comes with the 12V trucks. This is driven from a lobe on the 12V trucks camshaft. Your 24V cam doesn't have the fuel pump lobe. So you need a new cam, new timing cover, custom 24V injectors designed to operate at the low P7100 injection pressure and lots of cash! The P7100 is a great injection pump and is very versatile. Its durable because it is lubricated by engine oil unlike the VP44 and the CP3 in 3rd gen trucks. However a conversion is pretty cost prohibitive if you are not pulling and trying to get the best of both worlds with the rpm and fueling capability of the P7100 and the flow of the 24V head. You can buy a lot of VP44's for what it takes to convert to a P7100 so you are best to do just that but build the system properly where Dodge left off. |
Ya we just finished one on T.J's (Getblown5.9) truck. Not too hard, but his truck is going to be a pulling truck. And it wasn't that expensive. Just gotta know where to look for the parts.
https://www.dieselbombers.com/show-t...e-finally.html |
The latest VP's are pretty reliable compared to the first ones that hit the market, but if you want power and reliability the P pump is king.
I forgot about that video already. |
I'm ready to see some numbers on Industrial's new Dragon Flow VP
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ok, my bp44 died on my 02. ANYONE make a"kit" , @ least for the lines?
any help greatly app. Dave |
Originally Posted by tecknomage
(Post 302080)
ok, my bp44 died on my 02. ANYONE make a"kit" , @ least for the lines?
any help greatly app. Dave FUEL SYSTEMS, INJECTION PUMPS, P7100, SIGMA, VP44, HOTROD PUMP, FUEL TUBES, 12V, - Haisley Machine |
Hi this is my first post here! Anyway I just got done with my p-pump conversion yesterday. it was a little time consuming but it was a fairly simple job. I was able to complete it in around 20 hours. The easiest way is to find a 12 valve truck for parts and it is pretty much just a bolt on deal. There are a few mods you have to make like relocating the computer and grinding the head a little to clear the oil supply to the pump but other than that is was pretty much just bolt on. I'm very happy with the way it runs and it should be awesome once i spend some time tuning the pump. If you look around and find parts cheap you should be able to do the job for under $2000 including lines. Anyway just figured I'd put in my .02 worth.
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im taking a different approch to this conversion. I'm taking a 12 v and putting a 24v head on. Not sure if this will produce the same results but hey its only money.:5:
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it should swap over but you will need a 24v cam the 12v cam and 24v cam have different thickneses and if you run the 12v can you will reduce your lift. and therefore will need an electric lift pump :U: at least that is what i have heard. and you can run 24v injectors that are still set up for a vp44 it will just run better set up for a p pump :rocking:
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Originally Posted by will8
(Post 333952)
im taking a different approch to this conversion. I'm taking a 12 v and putting a 24v head on. Not sure if this will produce the same results but hey its only money.:5:
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Originally Posted by will8
(Post 333952)
im taking a different approch to this conversion. I'm taking a 12 v and putting a 24v head on. Not sure if this will produce the same results but hey its only money.:5:
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very interested in learning more on this :pca1:
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Call the boys at scheid they have a kit made and injector lines on the shelf you provide the pump and for about 3k you're in those guys know wtf they're doin
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Originally Posted by Dr. Evil
(Post 297910)
That is not exactly accurate - the cost is no where near $11-12K...a buddy did his for $3-4k. He loves it and would not go back. He is using the 24V injectors as well.
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Originally Posted by cummins cowboy
(Post 309136)
Hi this is my first post here! Anyway I just got done with my p-pump conversion yesterday. it was a little time consuming but it was a fairly simple job. I was able to complete it in around 20 hours. The easiest way is to find a 12 valve truck for parts and it is pretty much just a bolt on deal. There are a few mods you have to make like relocating the computer and grinding the head a little to clear the oil supply to the pump but other than that is was pretty much just bolt on. I'm very happy with the way it runs and it should be awesome once i spend some time tuning the pump. If you look around and find parts cheap you should be able to do the job for under $2000 including lines. Anyway just figured I'd put in my .02 worth.
i would like to have a p-pumped 24 valve....just cool |
the "its alive!!!" truck sounds AMAZING, the old VE44 knocks and rattles and isnt quite as smooth. its an interesting concept with some awesome dyno numbers. i'd do it if i have a 24v and abunch of money to mess with
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Originally Posted by Lostnwalmart
(Post 334244)
it should swap over but you will need a 24v cam the 12v cam and 24v cam have different thickneses and if you run the 12v can you will reduce your lift. and therefore will need an electric lift pump :U: at least that is what i have heard. and you can run 24v injectors that are still set up for a vp44 it will just run better set up for a p pump :rocking:
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from what i've heard 12 and 24 valves use different pistons due to the location of the injector in the head. so to switch the heads the rotating assembly would need to be changed as well.
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i sure would like to talk to you about this conversion. iam fixing to do this. any help would be greatly appreciated thanks russell mech3877@comcast.net
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Here's everything you ever wanted to know about the swap.P-Pump 24Valve - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
I've seen one done myself. He just did 1167HP - 2K+ tq on nitros and 714HP fuel only. |
so with the use a 12v block an switch the head or just use a 24v and use the p-pump, which engine has the better block? isn't that more what you should be looking at, at least if you were going for power, i would want the strong block. any input?
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I think I would want the stronger block also. I was thinking about doing the p-pump conversion to my 24 valve, but after reading this I think it would be a better idea to swap my 24 valve head over to a 12 valve block because I have the 53 block.
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whats a 53 block? i know the #1 main on the 24 valve blocks are bigger according to the service manual
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Hi Will8
I just finished writing a 3 1/2 page article on the Cummins fuel system and lift pump. This in depth article, covers the basics of the lift pump and why it's effciency is VERY LOW. This translates into low fuel pressure at WOT. Article number two will deal with the details, on what you can do to make make your Cummins fuel system more efficient. Having higher fuel flow and fuel pressure will make HP improvements much easier. I hope you like the article! Feel free to send this article to your diesel friends. I want these tests to be in the hands of diesel owners and performance entusiasts. All you have to do, to read this important article, is to copy and paste this link into your address bar. The Cummins Lift Pump Rob Parelli Tork Teknology |
a 53 block is comes in the 99s mostly and is prone to cracking
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a buddy of mine just did it and he rebent all his lines,he's got less that 1000 dollars in it
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Originally Posted by cummins cowboy
(Post 309136)
Hi this is my first post here! Anyway I just got done with my p-pump conversion yesterday. it was a little time consuming but it was a fairly simple job. I was able to complete it in around 20 hours. The easiest way is to find a 12 valve truck for parts and it is pretty much just a bolt on deal. There are a few mods you have to make like relocating the computer and grinding the head a little to clear the oil supply to the pump but other than that is was pretty much just bolt on. I'm very happy with the way it runs and it should be awesome once i spend some time tuning the pump. If you look around and find parts cheap you should be able to do the job for under $2000 including lines. Anyway just figured I'd put in my .02 worth.
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I just did mine in a weekend and all I have in it is a custom PVC intake (made it myself) and about 300$ cause I worked for someone that had a truck with a thrown rod so I took what I needed off of it for free lol:c:
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