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om616 jeep swap
i did an om 616 in an 87 wrangler with a t18 ford 4sd and a 1356 transfer case. This is much easier than making all those adapters and you can can the ax15 trans. I will be happy to answer any questions anyone has. Also my jeep is for sale if anyone wants to do it the easy way.
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I like you idea but most are trying to do it the cheapest way possible buy using their original parts. I know alot of people said the 5th gear in an AX15 is useless unless on flat ground but why would you want to go backwards and use a 4 speed? What year and model would you get the t18 and 1356 T-case from and how much would it cost? I really do like your idea just trying to figure out which is easier and cheaper!
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Originally Posted by superduty_5.9
(Post 677805)
I like you idea but most are trying to do it the cheapest way possible buy using their original parts. I know alot of people said the 5th gear in an AX15 is useless unless on flat ground but why would you want to go backwards and use a 4 speed? What year and model would you get the t18 and 1356 T-case from and how much would it cost? I really do like your idea just trying to figure out which is easier and cheaper!
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I was meaning useless without a gear change but did not say that. I don't want to use a 4 speed but this info could be useful!
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Hmmm, the stock gearing for a 2.5 Jeep diesel with the AX-15 is 3.73, max rpm 3900. And I still reach 110 mph with ease.
Tire dimension used is 235/75 R15. 31" gets a bit sluggish, but who cares? 5th gear is useable anytime. |
Originally Posted by Deezel Stink3r
(Post 677919)
Hmmm, the stock gearing for a 2.5 Jeep diesel with the AX-15 is 3.73, max rpm 3900. And I still reach 110 mph with ease.
Tire dimension used is 235/75 R15. 31" gets a bit sluggish, but who cares? 5th gear is useable anytime. |
yupp, tried the 31" also.
235 is no difference to factory 225. But a "real" half inch taller, lol. To much road use- 31" makes no sense to me. :hellox: |
You guys have made sense to me about 5th gear and tire combinations but I'm more interested in the rest of the post.
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Originally Posted by superduty_5.9
(Post 677805)
I like you idea but most are trying to do it the cheapest way possible buy using their original parts. I know alot of people said the 5th gear in an AX15 is useless unless on flat ground but why would you want to go backwards and use a 4 speed? What year and model would you get the t18 and 1356 T-case from and how much would it cost? I really do like your idea just trying to figure out which is easier and cheaper!
I have my concerns about the torque of a diesel running thru a car transmission, but 3 actual speeds seems like a step backwards, IMHO. |
With the 616 engine (which is the only one that will work properly in a wrangler the 617 wont clear the front axle without some kind of lift or crazy angle) and 29" tires 5th gear would be usless. My t18 is from a 81 f250 with a 460. I used it because it was free but I would never use the ax15 unless it was the only thing I had most jeeps you will find cheap have a bad ax15 in them. I wanted a 100% reliable swap and the t18 will last forever in this application. If you want to change gears all the time maybe you need a 5 speed or with some 4.56 gears I could use overdrive but it is geared just like the 240d i pulled it from now 3speeds on the road is enough and i have low when i need it. Its a perfect combo for me. I have it out right now switching to an external slave cyl and installing a 617 turbo. Then ill see if it can pull 31's.
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rab475, Thanks for the info. I'm new to Jeeps and Mercedes engines. I am a diesel mechanic though and have done other swaps. You say the ax-15 is weak but there is an adapter for it and even the weaker ax-5 for the 4 cyl and most jeep swaps seem to be using the ax-15. If it is true about the ax-15 being weak then maybe the are using them since they already have them.
For me the swap will be for driving and off-road when needed. I'm not that hard on a vehicle. I wont be racing or doing burnouts or rock crawling. I'm building a two tank WMO fuel system to drive cheaply. Gearing will be important for me and tire size to keep the engine in it's power curve. For now I found a 89 wrangler with a 6cyl and automatic. My main goal is to complete the swap and drive then later swap the auto for a reliable 5 speed then do a little body work. It has some rust but nothing I can't fix. There are several 617's in wranglers without a lift and weird angle. Some have said a lift would be nice to give additional clearance but not totally necessary. Mine will have a 4 inch lift with hopefully 31x10.5x15 with no rubbing.:jump::c: |
Originally Posted by rab475
(Post 674820)
i did an om 616 in an 87 wrangler with a t18 ford 4sd and a 1356 transfer case. This is much easier than making all those adapters and you can can the ax15 trans. I will be happy to answer any questions anyone has. Also my jeep is for sale if anyone wants to do it the easy way.
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That's what I got out of it too!
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Hello not trying hijack this thread . But what kind of fuel mileage do you think you'll get out of 616 or 617 ? I was thinking about putting a 617 in a Bronco :rocking:
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Originally Posted by JohnT
(Post 684760)
Hello not trying hijack this thread . But what kind of fuel mileage do you think you'll get out of 616 or 617 ? I was thinking about putting a 617 in a Bronco :rocking:
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No I was looking to put it in a 74 Bronco the old classic boxie looking one's . It weights about 3800 lbs . Do you know what kind of horsepower and torque your making with yours ? Do you have any pictures of your swap , And any advice as a far as a conversion goes ,like what year of car to look for ?
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Originally Posted by JohnT
(Post 685203)
No I was looking to put it in a 74 Bronco the old classic boxie looking one's . It weights about 3800 lbs . Do you know what kind of horsepower and torque your making with yours ? Do you have any pictures of your swap , And any advice as a far as a conversion goes ,like what year of car to look for ?
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I found 87 Mercedes wagon with 300 tb in it . What kind of horsepower will that motor make ? Will it work for conversion.
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Originally Posted by JohnT
(Post 684760)
Hello not trying hijack this thread . But what kind of fuel mileage do you think you'll get out of 616 or 617 ? I was thinking about putting a 617 in a Bronco :rocking:
By the way, what differences are there between the 616 and 617 ? The 617 is not a good match with solid front axles and no lift because of the oil pan position.... |
The om 616 and 617 are the same except the 616 is a 4cyl with no turbo. Either engine will mate to a ford t18 4spd or any ford trans with a 10 spline clutch. No adapter needed just a little machine work and bolt it up. Use stock mercedes clutch (all flywheels are the same 200d-300d mine came from a 115 body 220d) stock ford pilot bearing and turn down the front bearing retainer in trans as small as possible and still get the bolts in it. You then cut the mercedes bellhousing out to fit the bearing retainer. Sil the bellhousing on the front of the trans and drill 6 holes and tap them. i used a hyd throwout bearing first but im working on a shaft mounted clutch fork now. This setup sits behind the front axle and looks stock. Ihave never seen a 617 that is not up aginst the hood in the front and too close to the oil pan on the bottom. Also if you need a 5 speed either your way under powered or you just like to shift. 3+low is plenty of gears for me and i will never have to work on it again.
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rab could you be mor specific about the t18
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Rab475 - I agree completely on the 616 being an easier fit. If I understand correctly, the stock 616 puts out 65 hp where the 617 has 125 hp which is why I'm working around all the problems associated with the front oil sump.
Based on your knowledge of Ford transmissions, could a T-5 be used same as the T-18? Are you located in Cleveland, TN? If so, I looked at your wrangler when you had it for sale. |
I agree I would like to know about the t5 also does any one know where to find actual specs on these like shaft length spline bearing housing od ect. I have found several bellhousings I am thinking of using the stock ford clutch setup because the mb one is big bucks
---AutoMerged DoublePost--- any one find specs on t18 |
specs for t5
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any one find specs on t18
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IIRC, Rab475 said that the flywheel from a 4-speed 616 is a direct bolt-on to the 617 crank shaft and according to a knowledgable poster from superturbodiesel the OM617 will run fine with the OM616 flywheel.
Manual flywheel specs I would think it would be a matter of fitting a pilot bushing to the 617 crank to accept the T-18 / T-5 trans shaft then cut and drill some steel plate to bolt the trans to the engine. Can any flywheel of a large enough dimention not be drilled to accept the clutch / pressure plate of your choice? I recall reading somewhere that the MB clutch is a bit smaller than the typical ford / chevy models. |
yea i will find out I will have flywheel and bellhousing coming and i think I found a tranny but it is under about 10ft of snow might be end of march before can find a good one
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From what I've read the US did not receive many if not at all a manual Mercedes. In Europe it is very common to see manual trans. The 240d flywheel will work on the OM617 if you can find one here in the US.
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I actually found a flywheel and a bell-housing the flywheel was in Michigan and the bell housing was in Florida the flywheels seem to be more plentiful than bell-housings flywheel 25+20 to ship bell-housing 88+35 to ship if you need flywheels go to car-part.com and I have a line on a transmissiont5 out of a s10
---AutoMerged DoublePost--- you have to search for like a a 80 240d to find parts |
any more updates?
thanks, Tom |
Any update on this?
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