I'm walking in your foot step
Will disassemble one of my 300DT and getting it ready for the transplant and future headache

Thank's Vlado !!!!

cool keep us posted,you are going to love your new toy:ok1:

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keep us posted and put some pics up definitly:c:

First mistake
I just realized that I knew nothing about jeep
I got myself a nice looking wrangler 1987 , from a very cool guy named Jason.
The add read " BLACK, 3 inch lift... 33's VERY NICE RIMS 5 speed, 4.2 , 6 cly..... Needs clutch and carb work. Body is perfect Looks great"
Indeed looks great and looks can be deceiving
And realized later that it had the cursed AX-5 frenchy peugeot trany:madd:
"sacre bleu":argh:
will post some pictures as soon as i get over my :tttt::argh::madd:

Any way since I was going to drop the trany may as well upgrade to the AX-15
oh wait need to make sure I get the right transfer case ( what is a transfer case again?)
back to the drawing board and learning board/curve

any advise !? are more than welcome as I will spend most of my sunny weekend haunting jeep forums and learn about " Dana territories" , AX-15 and NP231

The only relief is that part for jeep are cheap and plenty if you only know what you are looking for (not my case)
Better go do some shopping and get a transmission jack.

Note to myself cosmetic is only skin deep

If you need ANY Jeep info, feel free to PM me el31415. I used to drive,off-road, and work on nuthin but Jeeps.

And SWEET conversion Vlado. I've seen many different conversions into Wrangler YJ and TJs, but never anything like yours.

Vlado did you balance the flywheel ?

From the 4x4labs web site
""""
When replacing the flywheel, the balance of the engine should be maintained as much as posible. The new flywheel should be brought to the same balancing condition as the old flywheel. A simple 180 degree balancing operation is performed. We offer this service. You can send us your flywheel and we will send you the new flywheel balanced to the same specs as the old one. You must mark the flywheel before removing it so that the same balance point is retained when installing the new unit. """"

no i did not balance the flywheel. i did,think about it for a while but in the end i decided that all flywheels are almost if not perfectly balanced to begin with.i work as diesel mechanic at local MACK TRUCK dealership and we do lot of clutch jobs and everytime we install resurfaced flywheel and not once we had to send old flywheel to machine shop or had any vibrations.that is just my take on it but if you want to take it and have it done by all means do it otherwise it will mess with your mind.i have had my jeep reved up to max several times and have no vibrations whatsoever,but i was leary when it was done and right before i started it up if it was going to vibrate,so it is your choice.I am not telling you to do it or not but you make up your mind and stick with it.
for trans issue you have i know the trans you have is not the best trans out there but i would probably try it just for the hell of it.You already have that and if you hate that trans that bad or goes bad down the road you can replace it with ax-15 or something else that you may be able to find out there,also depends on what you are going to use your jeep for. your bolt patern for bell housing is going to be the same so you wont have to mess with adapter plate:c:

Here we go
In the front is my daily driver and faithful Mercedes 300dt 1985
In just park behind is my "VladoII" project
Attachment 52272

a close up of the project
and in the back ground you can see the donor a Mercedes 300dt 1985

Attachment 52273

next step will be to get greasy and dirty

el3 ,

If you need any parts for your daily driver , I have 84 300d that I stole engine from ; but body is in EXCELLENT condition !! The steering column is the only problem with the car ; only one dent in rear passenger quarter panel near trunk ( it is GOLD color ) !! It has same rims as on your silver DD ; and they are in near MINT condition !! Any parts are REAL CHEAP !!!!!!!! Prices will be a steal so you pay shipping costs !! :ok1:

PM with any requests ...:U::U:

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car hyphen part dot com ........ great deals on salvage yard parts !!! :U:

hey hulgreen if you want to sell your mercedes parts you would be best off to put it on mercedes forum for sale.those guys always need switchess,window regulators,etc...

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hey el31415 that is good looking jeep.i wish i had one like that to begin with.it would save me lot of money and lot of work.good luck with project:howdy:

I'm in Los Angeles area so shipping will be to expensive for the parts

Thank's hulkgreen
for the "" car hyphen part dot com ""
I just found my transmission and you saved me a lot of time
Great site I just bookmarked it



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What is the latest year I can direct swap transmission in my 1987 Wrangler ?


What is the latest year I can direct swap transmission in my 1987 Wrangler ?
After a lot of googling and reading
NV3550 Transmission or AX-15 ? that is the question

el3,

your 1987 has the " not so desirable " peugeot trans from factory !! You can purchase either NV3550 or NV3500 or Aisin AX-15 for trans and if you want to change the starter over to the Driver side to keep it away from heat you can use the 97 Dodge Dakota either 3.9 V6 or 5.2 V8 BELLHOUSING .... BOTH Bells will mount the starter to driver side and keep it away from the turbo'd exhaust manifold and they have all necessary provisions to mount the clutch ( just like stock JEEP ) and .....

ALL the transmissions above mentioned will DIRECTLY bolt into the bell housing ( they share trans bolt patterns ) !!! :U: :pals:

Hope this " inside " information helps !!!! YOU ....

The ax-15 will be smooth and the other transmissions are truck applications so they are kinda balky :tttt:and not so pricise .... but much more HEAVY DUTY !!

The NV 3500 and 3550 both have 0.73 overdrive and ax-15 has 0.78 .... so the NV may get better hi-way economy !! ?????? :ok1: :rocking:

EDIT :::: NV 4500 has been removed from the list it is not the same and needs a special adapter !!

Thank's for the info and specially about the starter
I didn't taught about the heat generated by the turbo
I may need to get some heat shield around the turbo
I just located an NV3550 with 35Kmiles on it , I May jump on that..

You can use either trans el3,

You will need the bell and ALL associated clutch parts if you donor is post 1994 !! The post 1994 is actually an upgrade to hydraulic and supposed to be much better!!
If you want ( since you are possibly buying bell housing anyway ) ; you can find at car -part dot com the 97 dodge dakota bellhousing ( either 5.2 V8 or 3.9 V6 will work ) and put that bolt pattern into your adapter plate !! It is a direct BOLT in to either nv3550 or ax 15 transmissions and the WHOLE REASON I am suggesting is to move the starter over to the driver-side to keep it out from under the turbo and exhausts HEAT !! Extend the starters wires by 12 to 18 inches ( under the oil pan ) and YOU are good to go !!

In my OPINION !!

the ax 15 MAY not handle the power of the nv3550 ..... BUT .... the nv3550 is not as precise and CAN feel balky and noisy especially around 150,000 K !!

I have heard of the ax 15 ( behind the 4.0L ) lasting in excess of 350,000 K !!

el31415 you will need to get your bell housing up against engine and see where your starter is going to fit.i had to move starter from original position upwards toward exaust manifold to clear bulky mercedes oil pan,and had to make new cutout in bell housing to fit starter.if this is the case with your project(which most likely will be) it doesnt make sense to buy another bell housing as you will have to make cutouts anyways.also to consider if you are thinking to move starter from one side to the other you have to make sure you get correct turn starter as you dont want it to turn over backwards.also on left side of engine you have oil filter housing and if you are not thinking of removing that you wont even be able to fit starter there.sorry for long post just my opinion:c::5:

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ok that seamed a hell of a lot longer in this little box down here:argh::argh:

Does the Mercedes turn in opposite direction of Jeep 4.0L ???? If it does not turn opposite then changing sides from driver to pass does not matter ..... You are changing sides of engine which rotates starter housing but does not flip it !! It may eliminate the problems you encountered if we change to drivers side ????!!! My PRELIMINARY measurements have the Dakota Bell starter location 2 inches below the OIL FILTER housing !! This would be a good thing !!

So ; the most important thing to know is does the Merc Diesel rotate in opposite direction from Jeep !!?????? :ok1::ok1:

Okay Vlado, an 87 wrnagler should have the Peugot tranny, not an AX-15. The AX15 was introduced mid-way through 88. Either you have a Puegot, or you swapped the transmissions.....and if you swapped to an AX-15, what year is it out of? The input shafts I am told are different diameters, so it will change the bearing.

somebody else did the trans swap.it was like that when i bought it and also they had new clutch in it too,so i reused everything that was on jeep.the bearing doesnt matter at this point as you will have to have spacer for crank anyways.the bearing # i had in this tread is just spacer that i used.you use your stock pilot bearing and insert it into spacer that fits your crank(you can eather drill it or have machine shop machine it for you).i dont know for sure if input shafts are different diameters and even if they are, they are not different lenghts and that is all you care about, if you decide to go with stock trans and do a swap later on.good luck with project.

Thanks Vlado. Just looking to mock it up now, so that works for me. :)

no problem if you have more ? you can post it here so other people can see or you can PM me.post some pics if you have

Vlado !!

You missed post 95 ...... Does the Mercedez rotate in same or opposite direction of the Jeep 4.0..... ???? :5:

I put my stuff on hold waiting to find out rotation !!! :humm: :ok1:


Hey Vlado !!

While you are at it ...... why don't you transfer me some of that $70000 in casino cash you have lying around !!!

i didnt miss your post but unsure yet,i would have to say it is same rotation.i am not sure about dakota bell's as i am not familiar with them.Ill look at my jeep later on today to see where that starter would go.another thing what flywheel would have to go with that and what starter?
as for cash you keep posting and saving and before you know you will have it too:jump::jump::jump:

cool project. i have been helping my buddy swap a turbo 6.2L with a SM465 and np205 into his 89 Jeep Wrangler.

I can't save it the casino cheats and KEEPS stealin it !! :argh::argh: GAME OF BLACKJACK !!! If you hold at 19 then 99.5 % of time house will draw 20 !! Same applies if you hold at 18 house will draw 19 !! AND ..... If you hold at 20 then 75% of time house will draw 20 also ( and the tie does not go to player .... it is a re-deal ) !! The ODDS of this in real life are NO WHERE near this !!!

ON TO JEEPS AND DIESELS !!!

You use the stock 4.0L flywheel and starter it just moves it to the drivers side away from the heat of the Exhaust and Turbo ....... just like JEEP did :rocking:!! STOCK JEEP starter is on passenger side and exhaust is on driver side !!! :U: i WILL GO TO PARTS HOUSE TODAY TO DOUBLE CHECK THAT jeep STARTER AND dakota STARTER ARE INDEED THE SAME !!

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1999 Dodge Dakota with 3.9L V6 uses a 10.5 inch clutch and flywheel !! SAME AS JEEP

1999 Dodge Dakota with 5.2L V8 uses a 11 inch clutch and flywheel !! CLOSE ENOUGH .. NOT TO MATTER !! :U::ok1:

Just a thought....but shouldn't you actually DO a conversion first, before trying to sell this?

hulkgreen on the post 103
 

not to sound like a smart ass but i went and looked on my jeep and took pics of what would posibly be left side conversion of starter.in my mind it cant be done for few reasons (BUT I HAVE BEEN WRONG BEFORE).
if you look at pics below stock jeep starter is too long and bulky and not only that will hit oil filter it will hit injection pump too.
other look at pic that that i have my finger pointing where stock flywheel is aproximetly sitting and you can tell there is not enough room for starter regardless of bell housing.
also if you are thinking of mounting starter on bell housing side towards transs. somehow you have lines for hyd clutch in the way.now you may know something i dont but i sure dont see it happening from my prospective. since you are selling this kit i assume that is what you are going to use in your conversion?keep us posted i would like to know how that works

Why not just use the Mercedes starter?

one could if wanted to.in my case i went with jeep flywheel and already had new jeep starter.also jeep starter for reman it cost me $40,so i figured if ever need to replace it will be cheaper.to add to all this i also sold mercedes starter:yeah:
even if you went with mercedes starter if i remember correctly mercedes starter is even longer than jeep:humm:
also i think that both starters had same amount of teeth on gear(not 100% sure about this)

I misunderstood....I thought you HAD used the merc starter.

no that is jeep starter on those pics

Missed that too...lol.

So let me get this straight...with it tucked in under everything on the driver's side, there shouldn't be any reason not to use the Merc starter, right?

EDIT: That should have read passenger side, not driver's

starter is tucked in under pass side.pic with my hand on it is where starter would come on drivers side if switched over,and i dont think there is enough room.but you have all the room in the world on pass side.even mercedes build starter on pass side under turbo. i hope this clears it up some:yessir:
you could use mercedes starter but being that is longer and you would have to relocate it to fit on larger flywheel it may hit exaust pipe or turbo,as original starter was much lower and closer to the block:howdy:

Yeah, that clears it up....I edited my last post, as I meant to say passenger side too, but got confused with all the switching back and forth. Makes sense about the larger flywheel as well....

OKAY !!

So I suppose no one has the knowledge that the Dodge and Jeep have same flywheel teeth and that the Dodge has what is known as a " mini starter " !! :U:

And since OBVIOUSLY !!! NO ONE ELSE has a 3.9 Dodge Dakota bellhousing SITTING in front of them ..... :argh: There is nothing to argue about is there !!!

It is OKAY ..... When I get back from the sandy beaches and Margaritas to show ya by example :c::c:..... Ya'll can send apolagies then !!!! :rocking:

BTW .... The comment from the " peanut gallery " about " sellin somethin and ya haven't done a conversion yet !! " ................ Do you HAVE a JEEP ? Do you HAVE an OM617 ?? Then I am quite a bit farther along than you most probably !! :w2: Maybe you should not question someones mental or mechanical ability UNTIL you have concrete evidence to PROVE their theories incorrect :ouch: !??????

Don't be so close minded you may learn something from ALL the knowledge base there is to be had ..... " ON THE INTERNET !!

I was actually trying to state that you might want to think about working out all the bugs first, before trying to sell this....like 4x4labs has been doing for the past few years.

And in response to your questions about whether I have a jeep or an OM617, what are you - 18, 19, 20? Or do you just act like that?

Gee, jeeps or OM617's....lemme see, to make it simple here is a link to the last four years or so:

Jeeps

93 ZJ, Up Country Package with tow hooks, skids, hitch, 31's
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7...D550/ry%3D400/

95 YJ, 3" lift, 31's
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7...D550/ry%3D400/

88 MJ Longbox Comanche, 33's for mock up
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8...D550/ry%3D400/

73 CJ5, bone stock
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8...D550/ry%3D400/

03 KJ Liberty Sport
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9...D550/ry%3D400/

1990 MJ Eliminator Shortbox
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9...D550/ry%3D400/

1948 CJ2A, too many mods to list
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9...D550/ry%3D400/

1954 CJ3B work in progress, stripped to frame currently
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7...D550/ry%3D400/


Mercedes
75 300d non-turbo w115
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7...D550/ry%3D400/

gold 82 300sd w126
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7...D550/ry%3D400/

black 82 300sd w126
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8...D550/ry%3D400/

1980 Astral silver 300sd w116
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7...D550/ry%3D400/

(can't find a pic of the 1979 300sd)

Looks like an OM617 to me:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9...D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9...D550/ry%3D400/

You don't know crap about me or anyone else on here, so maybe you shouldn't stick both feet in your mouth at the same time, leaving you nothing to walk on. Not sure what more to tell you, except maybe take some advice a little more graciously than acting like an ass. :booo:


==========================================

Vlado....my apologies for cluttering up your thread with the junk posted above.

I do have a question for you....A/C....any advice on this? Did you come across this in your project? The Comanche I am thinking of has A/C already....be nice to keep it if possible.

Thanks. :bow2:

[QUOTE=hulkgreen;365036]
It is OKAY ..... When I get back from the sandy beaches and Margaritas to show ya by example :c::c:..... QUOTE]



:pca1:


:tttt::jump::gj:


on the other end i think we went too far from purpose of this tread.this is" BUDGET BUILD " you buy jeep,than you buy donor car or (engine from bone yard if you know what else you need).than you use all the parts you have laying around to build your ride,keep the cost at min. why would you want to buy parts that you dont need to make something that mercedes has perfected for years?:ok1:

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hey dunl
i didnt have a/c on jeep to begin with and i removed my compressor and all brackets from engine.in my opinion (i havent done this before with a/c but may work).if you remove lines from both systems and take them down to your hose maker.they can make you new hosses to go from your a/c compressor of choice to firewall of your jeep.i was also going to say you can soather end fittings but i dont think hosses are long enough and may need to be strached.

P.S.hey dont mind hulkgreen i know times are hard and he thinks he can get rich selling his kits.

Yes , VLADO

you are correct ! This is supposed to be budget minded !! I am trying to stay on that track with less than $75 dollar salvage yard bellhousing to move the starter away from turbo's heat !

I will text message you a pic of the bell mock up I have .... It is a great idea to move the starter away from the heat ( did you see all the heat shields Mercedes installed on the OM617 to protect the starter !!) I was trying to go with the JEEP idea and put the starter on the opposite side of the exhaust manifold !

Sorry if the bellhousing you presently have makes it look impossible , but you will see in the text pictures I send it can work with the correct bellhousing !!



Dunl ....

you apparently have had many vehicles .... kudos

Try to be a little more open minded .....it is not costing YOU anything to SEE if this can work !! I will be completed and KNOW this works before anything is shipped or money exchanges hands !!

Thanks for the patience !!

:pca1:







ps:that $75 can go towards your fuel for instance. also
"i dont know what you are thinking but only what you say":ok1:

I no longer have the A/C from the Merc, just the engine. I think I will see if it is possible to leave the A/C in there while pulling the engine without hurting it. If so, then all I think I will need to do is mount the compressor, and like you suggested, have hoses of the appropriate length made. The current A/C runs up the passenger side, so long as I can route it around the air cleaner/turbo/exhaust.....should be okay.

I hope. :w2:

I'm new here. Just came across your post and it is exactly what I have been looking for. I have an OM617 MB turbo sitting in my garage waiting for a CJ or wrangler to show up. I've been researching this swap for a couple of months now and I like your approach. Stock transmission, transfer case etc. Thanks for the details with the flywheel and the pilot bushing. It seems that my intentions as a daily driver are just like yours are, mostly street driving with a tad more aggressive look (like yours)

I wanted to share a couple of links to to tach stuff. I've been posting on a Cherokee forum and ran across a guy who is very knowledgeable about the OM617 and swapping it into Cherokees. He uses the Benz auto transmission and a toyota 4 runner transfer case. His method, although good is a little more work than I was wanting to do. Your method is more along the lines of what I wanna go with. The thread has a little bit of information you might be able to use for you tach. I think the second link will be exactly what you need for your tach.

Here is the other forum I have been posting on:
Anyone on here done a Benz diesel into an XJ? - Page 2 - Jeep Cherokee Forum

If you scroll down to the bottom of this page you will find some detailed info about hooking up the sensor for the RPM and the amplifier you need.
Pictures by ulendo - Photobucket


I have the ability to put in Auto Cad all the dimensions of the flywheel, MB bolt pattern and Jeep transmission bolt pattern to make my adapter plate. Plus having a spare jeep tranney and engine in the garage makes it nice. Now all I gotta do is find a jeep to put it in.


The only concern I have with your method is this:
When the MB OM617 is machined/manufactured... the crank and flywheel are balanced as one unit. Have you had any balancing issues with your setup? I would tend to think that with your method (a different flywheel) you might see issues come up? Refer to post #20 on the above mentioned link.

thanks for the links i have read complete thread on it it is interesting stuff there for sure. i think you are right for tach sensor but i havent saved that amplifier or any of that stuff as i thought than i wouldnt need that:argh::madd::argh::argh:
to answer your ? i havent seen any problems so far with any vibrations whatsoever but who knows what my pop up.from what i read on some forums is that you SHOULD balance it ,but i didn't(i may pay for it later,i hope not).i dont know if this is going to make sense but everybody has opinion.in my mind all these components must be near perfect balance.so with that in mind i would say that only flywheel should be balanced. lets say your starter gear stripps out and you have to replace flywheel or something happens to flywheel,are you going to stripp motor to remove crank and take everything down to machine shop to balance new flywheel?one definitly could but i would think it is crazy.maybe i just lucked out with my flywheel.maybe i have problem that i am not aware of.maybe my engine will blow apart in future becaouse of it.I dont know what may and may not happen in future,but i have so far between 2000-2300 miles driving with it and have no problems so far.think this,i wasnt sure this thing would even run when i started this project.i puled out perfectly good jeep engine with only 94000 miles on it to explore this project.i figured worst case scenario it will cost another $500 for bone yard engine,weekend worth of wrenching and drinking, if this blows up and than i will ballance everything and listen to smarter people.dont forget even tho this is my daily driver and what seems to be complete project it is still testing stage,and i think it will be as long as this jeep lives:ha:
once again this is my opinion for what is worth