Van Conversion
 

Hi! and thanks for the hearty welcome in the newbies section. I introduced a question in the newbies section and someone suggested I post it elsewhere. Here is my situation

I want to buy an 80's van and put a diesel engine in it. My purpose of the diesel is for better fuel economy and the ability to put svo (in some ratio) straight into the fuel tank. I have seen in posts on other forums that bulk veggie oil is about $2 a gallon - I haven't found this out personally yet though.

I have seen a number of 80's van conversions for sale on the cheap. They almost all have V8 engines. Some have V6 or inline 6's

I am not sure how to begin this process. I don't know if I should find a van first and then get an engine that will fit in it or find the engine and then get a van it will fit in. I do know that right now all kinds of these older vans are available and pretty cheap, whether they have a v8, v6 or inline 6. I have not bought anything yet so I thought I would run this out to you all first. Here are my questions:

1. A fully dressed V8 engine weighs about 700 pounds. I am trying to minimize changes to the vehicle (suspension, cutting the firewall, etc). Can I find a V6 diesel that will be the same size (or smaller) and the same weight (or lighter) than the V8 gas engine? From what I have read so far I am guessing that the inline 6's and V6's are both going to be much larger and heavier than their gas counterparts. I have also seen some inline 4's advertised but I don't know if they would have enough power.

2. To those of you who have had vans of this vintage can you recommend a brand that you feel would be easier to work with, i.e. Ford, Chevy, etc? I know that the Ford van has the larger hood - almost car-like up front - so the conversion process itself might be easier. I am not really a Ford fan though :(

3. How much power am I going to need? Ever 2 years I will be touring the U.S., driving about 10-12,000 miles in six months. I will be driving across Colorado and up and over other mountains. I hope to be able to cruise at 70 on flat land and at least 55 up the hills. I may tow a trailer but more than likely it will be a tent trailer, less than 3 feet tall. It doesn't have to be a thunderbolt but I do need to merge into rush hour traffic. I would like to carry 30 or more gallons of fuel so that I can be a little choosy about where I stop or so that I can take the less traveled roads.

4. Do turbo's improve mileage?

5. I am thinking it would be better to do a complete heart transplant, i.e. engine and tranny together. I want to have a 4 speed or 5 speed stick - preferably with an overdrive.

6. I have heard of gas inline 6's getting 20 mpg. My dream of all dreams is to be able to get 25 mpg ( or better).

7. I am willing to do some mods on the vehicle to improve mileage also - maybe lowering the whole vehicle 1", etc. I am also willing to change the rear end.

How should I begin?

my suggetion on an engine would be a 4bt cummins. which is the same as the 6bt/ but with out the 2 of the cylinders. it should have plenty of power for what ya plan on doing with it. they used them in tons of different applications. they used them in alot of box trucks.

i was thinkin the same thing ed, you can get plenty of power from one of these and get good mileage too:choochoo:

I second (or third...) the 4bt. if you can find one the mercedes 2.5L/545rfe from the dodge sprinter would be an excellent choice, too. as for what van to use, I've done a fair amount of service work on some early 90's E350 vans and they were BEEFY, ooh, also an early 80's 250, I believe.

anyone know if there are chevy or ford diesel vans from the 80's?

if you're going to be in the 1/2-3/4 ton chassis, have you considered the suburbans? I know there are a lot of 80's 'burbs with a diesel going pretty cheap, I'd be more inclined to get one of those and toss a 4BT cummins in it and be happy with 25+mpg. I know a guy that got 35mpg with a 4BT in a chevy 1/2 ton truck with a 5 speed.

--oh yeah, you said you want to be traveling/touring around, I could see where the taller van interior would be more useful...just make sure it's got plenty of windows on the sides...you know, stay away from these kind -->

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thats funny right there

Thanks! I will start doing some research. About the turbo...what kinds of benefits will I get from having a turbo on an engine? and how about a 5 speed manual tranny that doesn't sing like a fat opera star?

you definitely want the turbo. technically, it increases the volumetric efficiency of the engine. practically, you can roll on the throttle a little in 4th/5th gear to maintain or accelerate instead of flooring it and/or downshifting. and it allows you to have a lot more power available, for the times you're pulling a grade or driving into a headwind.

as far as transmissions, the NV4500 is pretty much the one you want. the guy with the 1500 4bt that I know, I believe, had an NV3500, not sure if that'd be too light weight for a van/'burb, though. anyone know anything about the ZF 5 speeds? are they awesome like the ZF 6 speeds??

15" or 16" tires - can I get away with 15"? I ask this because I have noticed that a lot of the 1/2 ton or more vans come with 16" tires. I would prefer the 15" because:

* the overall height of the vehicle will be lower (or should be 1/2" lower, and I am planning on dropping it another half inch or inch to improve drag)

* 15" tires are cheaper and there is a greater selection of them

* there are more great looking rims for a 15" wheel

What do you think?

Diesel Swap
 

My $0.02; Chevy made great full size vans 80's- mid 90's with the 6.2 ; and even if you find one you want, the 6.2 and 6.5 fit right in place of the gas engine and even use the same motor mounts. I believe there are several how-to's on the board. Also if you know about the worlds fastest diesel pickup, Gale Banks' 222mph truck that not only did the Power Tour with the A/C running it also did the Baja 1,000 and instead of using 6or700 gallons of fuel they only used like 80 !!! Anyway Gale Banks cut his teeth on those 6.2 Chevys back in the 80's, he started out running adds in Western Horseman, Quarter Horse Journal, NCHAChatter for his original Turbo System that like doubled the horse power back then. Check out his website and message board and weekly Blog. they have a ton of parts and in my opinion for a guy who wants a VAN the old Chevy has the best options. I've found them on Crazedlist.org for a few hundred bucks !!!:pca1:

PHOTO OF STEP VAN
 

here is a photo of one of the vans that came with the 3.9 Liter.:pca1:

I have heard that the 80's diesels were a piece of #^%$? What kind of gas mileage do you get with one? Thanks for your info...with inflation, I think you $ 0.02 is now worth $ 0.60 :)

"anyone know anything about the ZF 5 speeds?"

I think thats what I got in mine, It's a 5speed out of a 95 dodge 1 ton. All I use mine for is towing, and it's held up great for years. Doesn't make a whole lot of noise either, but if it did you probably wouldn't be able to hear it over the cummins rattle.

as for the 80's diesels, I have never had any luck with 'em, wich I why my work truck is a Chevy with a cummins. even the 90's 6.2 always gave me alot of problems. but, I'm sure you could build one up to do what you want. as far as reliability tho, I would definitely stick with a cummins. I'm not 100% sure on this but I've heard that the 80's gm diesels were based on a gas engine design and that's why they never really ran all that great and had reliability issues. Being that the compression and overall strain on parts associated with a diesel engine are far greater than those in a gas engine.

the 5 speed from the 95 dodge is an NV4500. the ZF transmissions were in the Superduty trucks. no idea how the ZF 5's are, I know the ZF 6's are awesome.

I have a zf 5spd it works great the 5's are the younger version of the 6's they were in the obs fords

gotcha.

You wouldn't be too impressed with the stall from second to third on the ZF-5 speed. It falls flat on its face shifting from 2nd to 3rd- not good when pulling a trailer...or for a 4bt perhaps as well. You have to rev it up pretty high in 2nd before you shift to third. Also remember that the turbo down pipe will be right where the starter is. That means a hard 2-90 degree bends at the hottest point after it exits the turbine.

Another downfall with the ZF5 is that an adapter would need to be bought/made. A NV4500 would bolt right up to 4BT, assuming you run 94-up Dodge running gear. Some lays trucks ran chevy TH400 or an SM465- you could also bolt up a 700R4, but I don't know if that will hold up for long. Find a 4BT with a chevy trans, and your choices are unlimited...early model 6.5 bolt patterns are small chevy patterns as well. 6.5's ran the NV4500 as well. Did I confuse you?:howdy:

If it's a van, why not check into the OM617 Mercedes Benz/auto trans option? Talk about a cheap conversion! Run that in a 1/2 ton van, and I'd say you'd be good to go. Good luck rigging up a clutch linkage/pedal in a van.

I really find it interesting that so many people bad mouth the 6.2l diesel! If my brother can run one in a 1/2 ton GMC treated like a 1 ton over 300K miles with only one IP change, a couple of glow plug changes, and barely any other maintaining, then why is it such a bad engine? I have my parent's 82 'Burban now with nearly 250K on it that has seen many better days because of the Rust caused by Wisconsin's obsession with pouring enough salt on the roads to lure not only deer but other animals out for feeding, but the engine has also never had any more work on it than a couple of IP changes, GP changes, 1 return fuel line repair, and nothing else than oil changes in it's history. I got the 'Burban because I now have a family and wanted something big, safe from idiot drivers, and great on mileage and now run it without worry of problems.

Bear in mind that both of these trucks were farm vehicles and worked hard hauling a lot over every terrain. In fact, in the area I grew up, there were many vehicles powered with such engines. Even with the 700R4s.

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Now the 5.7l diesels, they were a different story. I've owned a few cars with them, and have put in my share of head gaskets over the years. I still own an 85 Caprice that is waiting for a replacement tranny. When they run, they run VERY well, I would average over 34 mpg in a full size sedan running with the AC on and over hilly terrain. But like I said, I became very proficient in replacing head gaskets. They can be built to overcome that "little" deficiency, but most people just move on.