Cat engine options for a swap
 

Okay guys, I'm new here and relatively new to diesels. I bought my wife a 2003 GMC 2500hd with a modified Duramax in it a couple years ago for Christmas, stupid cheap needed a TCM and stole it for $5800. Anyways. The truck made me realize why diesel guys do what they do. Expensive as hell but I finally understand. In the next couple years I want to buy another​ full sized truck for my self, to take trail riding and drive to work and take places with the family. Probably going to be a military auction k5. Im a cat guy my self so I figured this would be my engine of choice from working on semi's at my buddy who I stole the dmax from grandpa's farm. I just spent over a hour trying to find a list of cat engines online and can't find shit..... I'm looking for anything from a 4cyl to V8 cat but want to be able to build it up a lil to get good power from it. Let's say 300-400hp. That'll keep me in the range of good fuel mileage and not be boring to drive. Thing is with my lack of knowledge of these engines especially in modified form I need a little help. What's your ideas and advice on what a good engine would be for this kind of swap? Keep in mind I want to stay mechanical injection to keep it simple for my gas guy brain lol thanks guys

I have limited experience with some larger Cat engines (3406, 398, 353, 3306, 3512, 3208). For something smaller, the 3116/3126 comes to mind, but are still a very large engine for a K5. They have their problems...I believe HEUI injected also. Perkins (owned by Cat) produces smaller stuff. I once saw something close to cummins 4BT size in a portable generator.

At the risk of being unimaginative, a 12v cummins is great bang for buck with lots of performance potential. A 1stgen Dodge is a great donor for a K5. A Duramax wouldnt be a bad swap either... if you don't mind the electronics.

If I'm going to do a diesel build I wanna stick with one of the above, #1 Cat, #2 iszuzu, #3 Detroit and now knowing Perkins is owned by cat that's a option as well. We had a Perkins in a Lindy fork lift and it ran super quiet and was looowwww maintenance. I would like a engine that weights about the same or within reason of a BBC. That eliminates the 3208 and 3116. I was liking the idea of a 3208t for power and fitment but the damn thing weights 2,000lbs. I would love a 4 cyl if I could get 300hp and keep 20+ mpg. But I know nothing of any cats that small. Cummins is not a option for me as I don't like them and I just don't wanna be one of them guys, no offense lol :) I like the 4.9 iszuzu, we had one at the gm dealer in a box truck and it ran really well for what it was, and once again we never did anything but PM's on it. Lots to think about but I've got plenty of time to figure it out, gotta finish my z28 first =D

Isn't the Isuzu very comparable to the 4BT? What are your tcase options for the Isuzu trans?

6.2/6.5L was built by Detroit.... w/turbo would be decent in a K5 along with a TH700 or NV4500.

The 4BT/6BT gives you a number of trans/tcase options mainly from Dodge, but also Ford and GM due to the OE adapters used in 4BT step-vans.

Duramax (Isuzu built?) makes sense since you have one in your fleet already.

Diesels are expensive enough and a Duramax is outta the question due to cost and I don't want to mess with the electronics. And 6.2/6.5 wouldn't be bad. A military k5 would already be equipped, but my understanding is 300hp from either is stretching them thin. I want a strong reliable 300-400hp. And I will not use a Cummins. I would adapt any engine to a built 700r4 and a part time transfer case. I'm not a Cummins hater but they too are strongly inflated in pricing for everything in my opinion due to there strong fallowing. To me there is no reason why any of these parts should cost what they do, there's no reason why the F1 90 overs in my dmax should have costed $3,000, seriously how much money did they have in those injectors all said and done sitting in a box ready for sale lol if it wasn't for wanting good mpg I would slap a turbo lq4 in and be done. But diesels are Superior in the fuel Mileage game, our dmax gets 18+ and puts down over 500 at the wheels. No gas truck is going to do that unfortunately lol

look in to Kubota as well for a 4 cylinder.

I work at CAT in the BCP division btw.

^ This is why I don't have 7.3L powerstrokes anymore.

IMHO, a TH700 with that much diesel hp won't be happy very long. It might to be a good intermediate step for the 6.2L (mil K5 has TH400 stock?) along with a turbo.

The 94+ p-pump trucks do carry embarrasing pricing if you ask me... so does the 4BT. However, if you enter the cummins arena from the 89-91 non-intercooled D250 angle, its very affordable. Once you have you one for while, you realize how cheap they are to run, maintain, and upgrade. I've had four D250s now, and one W250. Powerstrokes are long gone, and netted a profit in the end :w2:

Is it even possible to get 3-400hp out of a 4cyl diesel while still maintaining reliability and good fuel Mileage? If so I feel like that's the way to go in my needs, light, small and fuel efficient. Just don't wanna be fixing every other week

3-400 ft lbs yes. Hp not realiably. I believe khaos had his 4bt around 400 hp and split a block in half. 220hp Hp is quite a bit. More then most need.

Sorry khaos is on 4bt swaps, not here.
I think you are asking alot. Cost would probably be cheaper to find a duramax then build a super hot rodded 4 cylinder

6 cylinders minimum. Its a fullsize truck. :moon:

I agree a 4 cylinder is out of the question.
The 6bd1t from isuzu is an option but longer then the cummins counterpart the 6bt.
But i am not sure the hp that can be had from the isuzu. Nice thing is it is an on road setup.

I have no knowledge of cats

Ken

Good to know that a 4 cyl is outta the question, figured I was dreaming on that frontier, does any know anything about the 4.9 inline 6 iszuzu? Is that the engine mentioned above? I don't remember the engine code that was on ours in the box truck at the dealership but it did good and if durable, being mechanically injected would a way swap and easy to crank up. More boost and add some fuel 😎

Research the engine and the injection pump. Bosch models tend to be able to be turned up a bunch. Others, not so much.

Cat industrial engines may pose a problem with weight distribution, the motor mounts are at the far front of the engine.
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Cat 3054 is a 4.4L 4-banger. Might be feasible in a pickup.

IMO, rethink the 700R4 idea. Even the 4BT guys seem to stay away from them.

good to know. Must be the tq they just can't handle it. Pry just have to run a shallow gear with a built th400. The mounting issue could be taking care of with a little fab work. How much power are any of the 6.5 good for? Are they worth anything​ as far as power and reliability at the same time? If I get a military k5 it's be easy to do the swap.

Yes, you do sound new to diesels. Its only since electronic diesel technology ramped up (last 15 years?) that 300-400hp is commonplace. The 12-valve cummins is one of the few older mechanical engines that will go there affordably. That's why diesel guys like them.
I fear you've already been spoiled by your wife's Duramax. :w2:

TH700 can't take much diesel abuse. Start googling. Should be okay with moderate hp goals. The OD, lockup, and deeper 1st gear are especially helpful with a diesel.

TH400 with a 6.2NA blows. :td: Been there with suburban... tried 4.10 and 3.21 ratios. It simply robs too much of the factory 130hp. Putting in the SM465 manual trans made it reasonable. Went from 11-12mpg to 17, and more power. This experience, and my gladly-departed 7.3PSD/E4OD van are why I only run manual trans with diesels nowadays.

I have two co-workers with turbo'ed 6.2 trucks. One is a 80's K20 w/TH700, the other is a '91 C30 w/4L80E. Both have mechanical injection pumps. They are happy as far as fuel economy, low maintenance, and the work they can do with them. These are both sub-200hp trucks.

The stock 6.5TD got to 195hp by the late 90's. I've driven these from time-to-time. My biggest problem with them is the erratic shifting of the 4L80E (maybe it can be programmed better?), and the 'disposable' nature of the electronic injection pump and the PMD.

Getting back to the mil 6.2 K5.... I would suggest a SM465 swap, a turbo setup, and call it good.

The only reason i stated a 4 cylinder woildnt work above is the HP he mentioned. If you lower your expectations to say 200-225 that should be no problem for a 4cylinder 4bd1t or cat like above. And should be plenty to move around a full size.

None of the overdrive automatics hold up well under a high output diesel, which is the reason most semi's use manual transmissions, the TH400 is pretty much a bulletproof transmission, but gear range doesn't work all that well with a diesel for fuel economy.

Thanks for the comments. Sorry I haven't been here to comment back, the dmax is hurt and I'm trying to get it sorted out, that kinda puts my mind on hold till I get that worked out. I am spoiled by the Duramax, that thing is awesome , 18+mpg and it'll out ran a lot of stuff on the road. I'm scared that being used to her truck will ruin any fun I could have with a 200ish HP diesel. I've seen what they can do first hand now and I want more lol I didn't realize it was harder to get power out of a mechanical injected unit. Maybe I could consider other options depending on cost as far as a electronic engine set up. And I totally didn't think about a transmission​ like a 4l80e, since they are affordable and stand alone controllers aren't outrageous in price. Hoping to be k5 shopping in the next few months. This winter or spring would be great. Then I can get really serious about all this!

Here is a Cat install, better bring plenty of money! LOL!
This 1993 GMC 3500HD is a trailer towing King with a 7.2L Caterpillar engine swap

That swap and seeing the new zr2 with the dmax is what got me on this course of thinking. That's wayy more engine then I wanna put in a truck tho lol