Am I foolish to buy a diesel?
 

Hi all,

So I'm a NEWB to all this so bear with me. I have been looking at buying a truck for quite some time now ( never owned one, family came before vehicle expenses ) and am having a difficlut time figuring out what to do. I seem to find myself continually gravitating back to either a Ford or a Chevy/Gmc in either a gas jobber or diesel. To be honest I dont usually tow anything at all, I am a buider so often I have lots of tools or materials in my rig, I drive on average 120 miles a day up to 6 days a week, nearly all on the interstate. I dont really have any interest in a 1500 class, partially because or their stance, the other is their feel; ie a little too " boaty " or car like to me, so I have settled on the 2500 / 250 class, yet if the deal was right I wouldnt really have any issues with going with a 3500 / 350 class. So I have a family ( three kids ) which makes four full doors really a necessity, and not to sound fickle but leather is also a must as more often than not I am so dirty at the end of the day I have found that leather holds up so much better and is way easier to clean. So here is my dilema; am I foolsih for wanting a diesel? Its immature I know but they just seem so much more of a REAL TRUCK, a mans truck. None of my friends own one, so their responses are always, dont bother - way too expensive to maintain and you dont really get that much more mpg. Are they correct? I have been researching this for a long time now and to be honest I really have ZERO brand loyalty, there's things i like about fords and there's things i like about chevy/gmc 's. Increased mpg is in a way here my main goal, with light moding cant you get great highway mpg out of a diesel? I have read countless forums about the pros and cons of either a powerstroke vs a gm and dont really see any true advantage to one or the other, there is a lot of brand loyalty out there ( thats fine i totally get that ) and a lot of interest in getting plus 500 hp. I am not really interested in that to be honest. Yeah its cool in all but to me, at least at this point in my life, i need something that is reliable as can be, and that is not going to be a gold sink. I personally am not intimidated by diesels, actually I'd love one. So there it is, thanks for any advice!!!!!

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oh and another thing, I wont be buying it new, purchase will mainy depend on the deal I can get as far as the year/mileage/cost..... thanks again

Sounds like a diesel truck would fit nicely into your life. I would look for a newer common rail diesel. Seems those get good milage with a good tune. If its 08 and newer you will be needing a deletes. Your in the rite place though, look through all the forums here and other brand specific forums. There is alot of info here! Weigh the pros and cons you find and get what you want.

Thanks Harry22,
I am leaning towards a 2500 duramax, anything that I need to know or look for at time of purchase ?

I was in the same boat as you, needed a truck and have 3 kids :c: also wanted something that would last and not need to be replace in a long while. I decidedon a diesel its robust and unlike your friends told you dont need much keep up compare to gas truck, all they mostly need is oil and filters changed.I got a quad cab we fit with room to spare fido even rides in the cab with us once in a while, I average 17-19 MPG's in city and im a lead foot :td: all diesel have a defect depends on which you rig get just fix it and your set. Hope this helps you some.

1longbed,
thanks for the response.

If mpgs are a big deal, a Cummins might be the way to go. When programmed, they can average 25-26. That is of course with good driving habits. And it's hard to do when they sound good. But, in my personal opinion, the duramax is most reliable.

Cole,
Thx... I was going to go look at a, 04 f350 lariat crew this week, but after reading all the posts about troubles with the 6.0.... man I don't know now. The rig looks good, one owner, 110k and is listed for$12999 which I am sure I can talk down... but still..... from what I can tell I wil want to drop another 3-4k right off to mod it in the right direction of dependability.... Thats seems like a lot to me.... Theres nothing that I hate more than breaking down and after reading all the posts I am hesitant on the 6.0 reliabilty.... I drive 125 miles a day every day and I dont need the hassle of breaking down....I wouldnt hesitate for a cummins but I cant stand dodge trucks, its a bummer. Any advice on helping my decision to go diesel would help

Stay away from the 6.0 . Any other truck with that low of miles wouldn't go for that price. There's a reason it's cheap. Haha. I've owned dodges, Chevys, and now a ford. If you don't want to spend the money for a 6.4 or 6.7 powerstroke, the 7.3 is a reliable motor, but they are SLOW. Mine is almost completely stock and they are down right slow. But every diesel has its problem. In my perspective, the duramax is the most reliable. And I think you should get a diesel. Every man needs a mans truck. The 01-04 duramax a had injector problems. And they were internal so they are difficult to work on. So any 01-04 over 120k, make sure it's a good deal, or they've been changed. The 04.5-05 sounds like it'd work best for you. The only problems they had were they'd blow head gaskets under heavy loads. And after that year, I'm not educated enough to have an opinion. So my opinion you should look for an 04.5-05 duramax. But be sure it's 04-5. That's when they changed motors.

cole,
So if they would bow head gaskets under heavy loads, its fairly safe to say that if I find a rig that was not used for towing and hauling then I should be ok yeah ? Also, I am from VT and everything is expensive as hell here. What seems to be a reasonable price for an 04-06 model with roughly 100k gie or take on it ? I understand that options and trim packages come into play, but setting that aside because those are fairly small diff in price, what seems to be a good price? Everything around here goes for like mid $20k's which I think is too much...

Thanks again

We just bought a crew cab leather interior 04.5 dually duramax for 19,200$. With 112k. That was after he put a chip, an egr delete, a big turbo mouthpiece, and a leveling kit. I would expect to pay close to 20k with around 100k miles. But you really can't garuntee the history of the truck.

Yeah thats basically what I am looking for... If I cant find something reasonable before too long then I may just bail on the diesel idea and get a gas jobber. I have always wanted to own a diesel and will eventually need to get it out of my system. It seems as though there is so much more to consider than just buying a gas jobber.....

Gas motors are more upkeep (oil is 3000 miles vs 5000 in a diesel). A diesel is easily good for 400k, if not more. A gas is pushing it at 300k. And with the new gas motors, they all have problems, more than diesels. My mom owns a 2007 chevy 1500 with a 5.3. That motor eats oil, and it turns off 4 cylinders for gas milage, and it causes carbon build up on the pistons, and the rings. And over time can corrode through the cylinder walls. And it gets 14 mpg. As to where my dads 04.5 gets 17. And it's a dually! There is a lot to look for in every motor.

youre probably right, its just the horror stories of people blowing injectors and having to drop 4k +- or head gaskets left and right yada yada yada.... I know that gj have issues too... I guess I am not freaked out by them because I am more familiar with them..... I work with a guy who has a 99 7.3 and he swears by it... other than that every one I know seems, to be totally petrified of them... Like I posted before I am only really interested in mpg from the diesel... not going to tow much. I spoke recently with the local diesel shop, they usually do big rigs, and he said basically go cummins or gm. His exact words were " stay the fuck away from a 6.0 ..." Haha.. I found that interesting to say the least.... and I'll say it again I am not brand bashing at all because I have never owned any of the big three ( ford, gm, dodge) I think what I will do is once I find a decent deal I will bring it to a local diesel mech. and have them give it a good solid look over ... other than that I feel like I am basically throwing a big hail Mary....

Can you drive a stick? In all honesty the cummins is a great motor, but their automatics are terrible. And their cheaper to repair, and a normal person can work on them. But the 6.7 cummins has problems. Our neighbor has a 6.7 cummins with a 6 speed. It's got around 110k and the check engine light has come on twice. And all he pulls is a horse trailer. Another thing is, any diesel can last as long as their maintained. I'd rather have a truck with 300k that has been maintained than a truck with 200k that was ran to shit. We had a cummins before this duramax, and it had a new 5.9. Because the guy took it fourwheeling, busted an oil line, ran it with no oil pressure, trashed it.

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2006 Silverado 2500HD Duramax Diesel mid 20s is high. This guy is only about a grand or 2 too high.

yeah stick is no issue.... its not the cummins that I have an issue with its the truck thats around it haha... I tested a 2010 cummins years back and really didnt like the interior much at all. To be honest I didnt like anything at all about the truck itself. I like the looks and the stance of fords the most and the interior of the gm's the best. And, like you said its hard to know what the previous owner did to truck before you buy it... oh well I guess I will keep looking...... I recently found an 03 2500hd ext cab with 125k but they want $17900... that seem a little high still....

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to add to that... the same site had an 04 chevy 2500 crew with the same miles on it as the ford f350 and it was 10k more to purchase on the button!!! thats a huge cost difference!!

Do you know if the injectors had been changed? And if its in good shape, 16,500$ is a good price. Low miles is a big deal. And does it have. Gooseneck? That's the tell tale sign if a trucks pulled heavy. And if they have bed liners, always pull me up and look under. Kids put stacks in them, take me out and put a bed liner in it. Stacks by a kid means its been ran. Buy an adult with a few jingles in their pocket can mean they had the money for. Show truck.

Dude, whatever you do, stay away from ford psd. The only thing my ford 6.0 psd did for me was constantly break down, and because of that, I got an 06 CTD and I never looked back. I have a dually and it gets great fuel milage, pulls like a bulldozer, lots of torque at much lower RPMs than PSD and DMax. You can pull a house off its foundation and get good fuel mileage doing it. Albeit, the interiors of the Dodge arent as nice as Duramax or Ford, but I gave up a little comfort for durability, and reliability. OH yeah, they're much easier to service and maintain to boot.
If youre hell-bent on a ford, try to find an older ford with the 7.3 PSD. Its way way better than the 6.0 :c: Whatever you decide on, research research research!!!

big redd,

Yeah man thats what I am trying to do here is research the hell out of this before I buy. I know that the 7.3's are a fairly good motor, but I cant seem to find many around here that arent totally beat to shit..... Now how do you all feel about a 6.0 psd after it has had all the master solution mods done so it is more dependable like the 7.3? does this really seem to solve problems or is it just polishing a turd ?

Thanks

The 6.0 can be a good engine, BUT you have to spend mucho chaching to address all its issues.......and there are several. I dont like the idea of only having 4 head bolts per cylinder in the 6.0. More is definately better. Even with studs, there's no guarantee you wont lift the heads with higher boost pressures. Polishing a turd pretty much covers it. 7.3s are pretty darned good engines, but like you said, a bit hard to find. Have you given any thought to a Fummins or Chummins? (Ford + cummins = Fummins, Chevy + cummins + Chummins) Kinda the best of two worlds. If youre not in a real hurry, keep looking.

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Dont get me wrong, Fords have really nice interiors and bitchin looks, but the 6.0 is crap.

haha I would assume that fummins and chummins are a ford and a chevy with a cummins motor? That would prob be the best of both worlds like you said !!! Are they reliable? does the engine drop in and remain reliable in a different truck ? sems like a ton of effort, but a good enough ida i guess

Most people have fords with 460's and get sick of 8 miles to the gallon, so they skip a ford motor because the dodge motors are in my opinion better motors. So they drop a cummins in em, and there you go, you've got a fummins. I only drive a ford because i got a 4 door short bed lariat with 260k for 5500$. I'm going to most likely sell it though. And a chummins isn't really the "best". A duramax and its allison are great. We had an 08 duramax, but in late 2012 my mom was testing the roads in it, hit an embankment, flipped it. We had bought it new for 56k. Talk about pissed. And i actually have a Diesel Power Magazine that gives an experts advice on what to look for when buying a diesel used. Honestly there are only a select few motors to stay away from. Pre 99 7.3s (front end issues) 6.7 cummins (Electrical problems) 6.0 stroker (Everything is terrible :td: ) i've got a cousin with a 6.4 and he LOVES it. He hauls hay from louisiana and he put a chip on it and gets 20mpg. My guess is if he'd have better driving habits he could get 24-25. But one thing i've learned is that with the 7.3s, they weren't really opened up out of factory. A chip is good for them. But know that when your building a truck up, your playing with fire. You can make them unreliable, and once you hit a certain point, a built tranny is needed. My truck is stock, and its tranny just had to be replaced at 255k. And it was an automatic. If you ask me, thats pretty damn good. But i'm going to stick with my first opinion. You should look for a 2004.5-05 duramax. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Thanks man that's some good advice.... I don't think I can afford a 6.4 anyways. Yeah I get the whole playing with fire idea..... It's a dangerous game unless you have money to burn... However, the only real mods I'd be all that interested in like I said earlier would be ones that improve mpg, which in the end isn't really all that big of a deal anyways because my company buys my fuel,but ya know waste not want not .... So as I am looking at all of this I am trying to factor into my purchase price the cost of either a master solution kit for a ford ( still very hesitantly go psd ) or any needed mods for a gm, and an intake turbo back straight pipe and some sort of tuner, not for a huge power increase just for mpg.... I have found a couple fords with the master solution kit done at 110k for $16k.. Like I said now that I've looked into it I don't know if I can pull the trigger on a 6.0 regardless ...

Sounds like you know what youre looking for. Just choose wisely cuz you, ultimately, are the one who has to live with it and deal with it. :c:

Thanks a lot for all your time and advice I really appreciate it !!!

Bigg Redd is right, you are the one who is making the decision. But know this, there are a lot of 6.0's for sale. (at least around here), because nobody wants them. The bad name trashes the resale value. I refuse to look at 6.0s. We had a neighbor who threw 7k in his 6.0 at 90k miles. Another one of em tried to trade it in and they said they wouldn't take 6.0's on trade. And it was a Ford dealer!:argh:

People bad mouth 6.5 TD but they are cheaper to fix than any other diesels plenty of power and I don't think twice about pulling out in front of someone.I'm getting 18-19 mpg and you can find good deals on them.

I didn't read through all the posts. 6.0's are bad engines and depending on what they have had done or what not. I've known some guys that had them and haven't had a lick of problems with them. Personally if your new though..I wouldn't say get one for a new diesel owner..because they could kill the passion for diesel. Also depending if you want 4x4 or you just want 2x4 that makes a big differance in price rang...you say leather..Duramaxs are nice for long rides and high way driving. 01-04's just have to make sure that they had the injectors replaced then you should be pretty good to go. 99-2003 7.3L Fords would be a nice ride for you because they are very good engines to start out with. Umm...not real sure about the 6.4s, I know the 6.7s are still going to be pretty pricey and you said you didn't or well take your not wanting to spend 30k on a rig since the one you found is around 12-13k. I'd recomend that you (if you have facebook) look up diesel sellerz page and add them. They have some nice deals, and some not so..but it will help start. I mean if you really wouldn't mind gettin your hands dirty on the 6.0, buy one and put it to work. I hear they are good trucks once you do a few things to them. I've actually been thinkin bout buying one to tear down and rebuild it to be "builet proof". But that once more comes to what you want. You can't say you don't want a break down with anything because sometimes it don't matter somethings going to go wrong. Its man made..LOL I hope that some what helps out what you want to know.

Mase, I was thinking of getting a 6.5. My dad had one new, but he said it was ALWAYS in the shop. But in Missouri we have a hill called Miniola hill. Its just a giant hill on our main highway. And we had a 38 ft Scarab, boat. And he used to chug up that hill at 80 without a problem. And i've heard of terrible overheating problems. How's yours?

Hey Cole.I have not had a issue with overheating but it seems some do and some don't.Now days there are ways of fixing that if its an issue.D-Max fan clutches,bigger rad,cold air induction and back in the day PMD was a big issue but you can relocate them to firewall,grill,bumper and even if it gets a little warm not as much of a issue as it used to be.:rocking:Most I've ever hauled12000 pound backhoe with 2800 pound 5th Wheel it did not like it but it did it.Only pulled it 8 miles.I was impressed.

I just talked to my dad. He said that at 80k on both of the 6.5's we had, he had to replace the injection pump. And i personally think everybody should put bigger air intakes on diesels. Isn't the ratio like 19:1? And gas motors are like 9:1?

18:1 to 21:1 is specs

Oh, haha. Have you had problems with your injection pump?

I bought truck used the guy told me it was on it's second one with 300k on it.Just freshend motor and it still looked good so I put it back in.I think dealers did not realize how big of problem PMD location was back in the day so they just changed IP's and sent you on your way.:rocking:

What do you get for mileage? I drive 10 miles to school, and 10 miles back. And my stroker gets 10.. Lol. And how much was it to freshen up your motor, or what'd you do? And do you think i could get an aftermarket injection pump to fit a truck that old?

I'm getting between 18 and 19.50 depending on how big of a hurry i'm in and know days you can get rebuilt pumps for around $500 witch is high but alot better than $1800 that some places charge.The mpg's is with 4:10 gears so thats pretty good in my book there are some guys here saying they get 22-23 with higher geared rear ends.I know a guy with machine shop so I saved money there but I had crank turned,cylinder walls honed,new bearings.rings,and gaskets,heads pressure checked for around a $1000 alot of cus words and a few bloody knuckles but she lives again.

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IP more like $800 sorry about that.

There was alot of stuff already replaced on out side of motor I saved alot of $ there to.

Never a bad idea to buy a diesel! They DO get better mpg, especially with a little work. Tow more, and do that more easily.
I've had gassers, still have one, but after my dmax, I'd never go back.
Compared to gassers: Diesels get mpg similar to a half-ton gasser, and tow more than a one ton gasser. Best of both. Maintenance isn't really any more, and they last longer on average. Fuel is more expensive though... I'll take that as a downside.

06-07 LBZ motor for the Duramax, look at the VIN, the eighth place in the VIN is a D and delineates it as a LBZ motor. The LLY still had a few injector and heating issues when towing, some of the post I read about towing was substantial and a lead foot for the overheating, my opinion

I just purchased mine with a little less than 38,000 on the clock and paid $25,000. This was the second one I looked at, the first guy backed out of the deal. They both made the same statement "this is the best handling truck they have ever owned", one was in his late 60s (55k on his) and the other genltemawas almost 80 and he was not backing down on his price..... and I know he drove the truck fairely hard witch was OK by me.

I average around towm 15-16, highway 17-20. I do drive like I almost stole it and they are quite fast for 7000lbs+

Good luck in your search....

diesel, wont go wrong!

I agree you can't go wrong with the diesel. I even went diesel in my 99 cherokee. It has a 6.2 Detroit with a 6.5 turbo from 95 van. The 6.2 is from a 1993 Hmmwv that I aquire from an army base in Missouri. The engine had 12,000 miles on it and for $80 I couldn't go wrong. I now get 32-36 meg depending on what I have the boost set. I used the van turbo since it matched the bolt pattern on the military block and I have been in Jeep/Detroit heaven since.
I don't recomend the Ford as others have steered you. My best friend has a new 2015 platinum F 350 that is a brick already. The engone is unruly glycerin powerful but the cap frames they installed now have left him stranded after hauling 1,500 lbs of dirt to a job in his 1 ton truck that now has a nice twisted frame. Seels ford no longer makes a quality frame since they are paying to have the strongest motors in a work truck the fail not being able to haul the load. Hahaha. I would pick the Gmail first and the Dodge second. The he Cummins is definitely the best aftermarket support, but the Duramax still seems to be the most dependable and fuel efficient. Happy shopping.