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I want a factual comparison of Shell Rotella vs Amsoil
I need to change all the fluids in my truck soon front , rear diffs, engine, tranny, transfer case and antifreeze. I have always used Shell Rotella but since i have joined Diesel Bombers I have heard alotta great things about Amsoil and i am thinking about making the switch but i want some real life expericane that you fellow members have with either product and would like some analysis and composition type information, and maybe Heath can give some good info aswell.
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The biggest difference and reason I run the Amsoil over shell or any other synthetic is the fact Amsoil still has a lot of zinc and phosphorus in their heavy duty diesel and marine oil. The major brands all went to low e and as far as I know they don't make CI-4 oils anymore. The removal of zinc and phosphorus takes away a lot of the anti wear agents of oil. This is also why I have started running the diesel oil in all the older cars and trucks in my family as most of them have flat tappet cams. They took the zinc and phosphorus out of gas oils a lot sooner. I lost 3 cams in a racing season and now know why. I have not done any oil analysis on my truck or anything like that. Up until I went to compounds and big injectors I ran 15k miles on my truck every time. Going from delo to Amsoil I gained about .25mpg. Later on that year I serviced front and rear diff and total gain from motor oil and diffs was 1mpg. My neighbor commented that my Cummins was quieter during idle in the mornings.
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Thank you for the information.
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What Mike mentions about the flat tappet cam situation is real and I've seen it as well. The older diesel oil and our 10/40 and 20/50 motor oils retained those high levels for those situations. As for the diesel market, they did have to reduce these for the CJ-4, but there wear protection is still just as good.(supposed to be). I would use either one with no hesitation.
Now back to the rotella vs. amsoil. There is limited data. AMSOIL is the only one that publishes comparative data and we don't have much on these. I'll give you a couple links. The first is our March issue of Action News. This doesn't have wear protection as a test per say but does have viscosity retention and shear stability data. They're looking at how fuel dilution may effect oil. This second one is old data. It's comparing our CI-4+ 15/40 with the old version of Rotella which I'm assuming does not exist any more. It's a word document off my site and may take a bit to load. It also has the automotive 5/30 on it so be sure you're looking at the right one: http://www.thesuperiorsynthetic.com/...and_15W-40.doc As for gear lubes, this study has been out since 06 I think and has turned a lot heads: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf Oil analysis really is the best way to tell if an lubricant is performing the way you want it to but the problem is it's hard to compare head to head becasue every engine is different. You put the same oil in two identical engines and you're not going to get the same results based on engineering defects or variations, driving conditions, etc. Hope this helps some. If you start to lean towards amsoil, be glad to get you more details on the products you would need. Heath |
Originally Posted by Heath
(Post 577125)
What Mike mentions about the flat tappet cam situation is real and I've seen it as well. The older diesel oil and our 10/40 and 20/50 motor oils retained those high levels for those situations. As for the diesel market, they did have to reduce these for the CJ-4, but there wear protection is still just as good.(supposed to be). I would use either one with no hesitation.
Now back to the rotella vs. amsoil. There is limited data. AMSOIL is the only one that publishes comparative data and we don't have much on these. I'll give you a couple links. The first is our March issue of Action News. This doesn't have wear protection as a test per say but does have viscosity retention and shear stability data. They're looking at how fuel dilution may effect oil. This second one is old data. It's comparing our CI-4+ 15/40 with the old version of Rotella which I'm assuming does not exist any more. It's a word document off my site and may take a bit to load. It also has the automotive 5/30 on it so be sure you're looking at the right one: http://www.thesuperiorsynthetic.com/...and_15W-40.doc As for gear lubes, this study has been out since 06 I think and has turned a lot heads: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2457.pdf Oil analysis really is the best way to tell if an lubricant is performing the way you want it to but the problem is it's hard to compare head to head becasue every engine is different. You put the same oil in two identical engines and you're not going to get the same results based on engineering defects or variations, driving conditions, etc. Hope this helps some. If you start to lean towards amsoil, be glad to get you more details on the products you would need. Heath |
I ran RTS for 25K in my Dmax and the UOA came back close to a virgin sample, but like many Dmax owners high copper reading from the oil cooler made me dump it.
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I use Amsoil 5w30 HDD and after driving just over 10K it still had a TBN of 9.15 thus it was still good for many more miles of usage.
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Why does everyone keep spreading the myth about ZDDP benig removed from the CJ oils:
Originally Posted by 01quadcab
(Post 576926)
The removal of zinc and phosphorus takes away a lot of the anti wear agents of oil.
Look it up. Or keep believing and spreading the myths. All the hogwash about flat tappet wear was hipo gasser anecdotes w/SM oils (NOT diesel oil) from Crane that everybody translated to all flat tappet applications and all new spec oils. Simply not true. Stop spreading the BS. |
Originally Posted by NadirPoint
(Post 578397)
Why does everyone keep spreading the myth about ZDDP benig removed from the CJ oils:
Simply not true. The Shell HDEO's have 1900ppm, only slightly less than the previous CI+ formulation. Look it up. The added soot handling capability in the new CJ spec makes this a win-win for anybody smart enough to just go ahead and use it. The new oil has demonstrated improved anti-wear characteristics in testing. Look it up. Or keep believing and spreading the myths. All the hogwash about flat tappet wear was hipo gasser anecdotes w/SM oils (NOT diesel oil) from Crane that everybody translated to all flat tappet applications and all new spec oils. Simply not true. Stop spreading the BS. |
Originally Posted by 01quadcab
(Post 578929)
post up some links then and show everyone. I can't seem to find anything on them.
Originally Posted by 01quadcab
(Post 576926)
The biggest difference and reason I run the Amsoil over shell or any other synthetic is the fact Amsoil still has a lot of zinc and phosphorus in their heavy duty diesel and marine oil. The major brands all went to low e and as far as I know they don't make CI-4 oils anymore. The removal of zinc and phosphorus takes away a lot of the anti wear agents of oil. This is also why I have started running the diesel oil in all the older cars and trucks in my family as most of them have flat tappet cams. They took the zinc and phosphorus out of gas oils a lot sooner. I lost 3 cams in a racing season and now know why. I have not done any oil analysis on my truck or anything like that. Up until I went to compounds and big injectors I ran 15k miles on my truck every time. Going from delo to Amsoil I gained about .25mpg. Later on that year I serviced front and rear diff and total gain from motor oil and diffs was 1mpg. My neighbor commented that my Cummins was quieter during idle in the mornings.
Any chance you could do the same and show us your source for "removal of ZDDP" in the oils in question? |
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