What to do next?
 

Alright guys, go easy on me as I really have no idea what is on my truck.

So I have had my 1999 F350 6spd 7.3 for about a year now. The truck had its engine replaced at ~200,000 because it sucked a valve. The transmission had some missing teeth so I replaced that. Turned out 1st/2nd syncro was shattered as well, and the clutch was cracked in half. So I replaced all that with heavy duty 400hp rated clutch and pressure plate. Now as far as the engine goes it has "140,000" miles on it, or so I was told. For upgrades it has a full banks power kit of some sort. Intercooler, what seems to be ceramic intercooler tubes (or maybe coated in something?) A larger turbo, a banks big head waste gate valve, 4" turbo back exhaust with muffler, ram air box and banks K&N style filter, a preset chip that I do not know the horsepower rating of, boost gauge and EGT gauge. As far as performance upgrades thats all I know of. The truck pushes 26 psi of boost at WOT, and it seems the turbo really doesn't do much until 2000-2500 rpm, which doesn't leave me much of a useable power band (as apposed to my dads identical truck with a smaller turbo that feels like it has much more acceleration at lower RPM). So what Im looking for is my next upgrade. This truck is a daily driver, so reliability is nice but I do have other modes of transportation so if something breaks its no biggy (unless its full engine overhaul, thats a biggy). But most of all Im looking for more seat of the pants power and mpg's if possible. (I recently read an article that had a 7.3 pushing 1000hp 2000torque at 22 mpg which blew me away! Out of budget ofcourse) Anyway, what Im getting at is where should I go next. Im looking for the next upgrade that will get me some decent power and mpg without breaking the bank (within $1000). Should I go with a real tuner? Or a compressor wheel? Or injectors? Should you need more info on the truck I can try to find out.

Thanks
-Darren
Attachment 27908

I believe this is very similar to the kit I have. Banks Power | 99-03 Ford - 7.3L Power Stroke>>PowerPack® System
I also have a ram air box though, and a larger turbo for sure.

i would find out the the "bigger" turbo is. but if it was me i would get a custom tuned TS chip and get rid of whatever it is you have now.

if thats the kit that you have i would also get rid of that intake, the K&N let is alot of dust and will destroy turbos and things. also that kit only has a smaller turbine housing. thats supposed to make it spool faster.

So it seems that my truck has a Garrett GTP38 turbo. Is this good? Or is it stock. Either way it is visibly much larger than the turbos on my dads 7.3 and his friends as well.

Can you post up some pictures of the turbo?

I'm guessing you have the basic Banks kit on the truck . . . Banks hard parts (exhaust, intercoolers, etc) are very high quality pieces. But, the "bang for the buck" is not there when it comes to the electronics and parts that are really supposed to make the truck faster.

First off, the donuts in the up pipes on the 7.3's are notorious for blowing out . . . ANY exhaust leak BEFORE the turbo will cause a loss in turbo performance . . . make sure you don't have any big gnarly exhaust leaks (which sounds plausible w/how bad your trans was beat up)

Second, check for boost leaks . . . make sure all the clamps on the intercooler boots are tight, you can spray them down with soapy water and have a buddy load the truck up and build a little boost and check for bubbles.

Assuming all that is taken care of, and you have no leaks . . . your laggy performance is due to the tuning (electronics). I would sell that stuff off and start with a good "known" tuning device.

First would be to dump the K&N, they are notorious for passing dirt on these motors and wiping them out quickly, a good filter like S&B is a cheap upgrade to ensure your engine will live a long happy life.

Next, here is the trick, and if you can follow this you will save yourself a ton of money. The ONLY WAY to make any significant power on a diesel is to add fuel . . . PERIOD. Tuners add fuel, turbos move the air so you can burn the fuel . . . its the diesel circle of life.

Do yourself a huge favor, figure out what your goals are BEFORE you start spending money on go fast parts. Knowing the power level you plan to hit will make sure you buy the right thing the first time . . .and buy your parts in the correct order.

Some things to consider:
- there were 2 versions of the motor available in 99, an early model or a late model. The early model came with smaller injectors (AB's) a smaller turbo, and smaller intake.
-Early models came with a smaller high pressure oil pump (15* vs the 17* of later engines)
- But, most of these motors came with factory forged rods (good for 500+HP) vs the powdered metal rods of later motors (400-425HP rated . . .this number could be argued, many have held on above this . . .but many have been lost at this level).

Making sure of this will help you know what your next steps will be.

Basic order of equipping a truck is as follows:
-Exhaust
-Intake
-Tuner
-Gauges

Aside from the tuner, you have all of this done already . . . so your next step will be adding fuel to the engine.

Injectors - these are the number 1 biggest improvement you can make to how your truck runs. Depending on where you want to go with the power will determine what you ultimately will want to run. A set of 180cc injectors is a very good upgrade for the typical truck (for comparison, AB's are good for 120cc and AD's are good for 140cc . . . AD's came in the later trucks). 180's will support around 450RWHP give or take depending on supporting mods and nozzle size. Additionally, if you convert to "single shot" injectors at this point, you will pick up some mpg (most see .5-1.5mpg going split shot to single shot injectors) and your oil pump may be able to keep up with these. You may have to upgrade to a newer HPOP down the road but i'd just play that by ear and see how it runs in the mean time.

This will be far more fuel than a factory turbo will want to handle. This is where a good tuner comes it, a properly built tune can dial the fueling of the injectors back to work with your factory turbo.

The factory turbo will be your next hurdle. A GT38R would work very well for a truck being build for 450HP or less and partner very well with 180cc injectors. Keep in mind that anything 30-35PSI of boost is about as far as you'll want to push it on the factory head bolts . . . head studs are a must when pushing more boost.

Fuel and then air . . .that is the combo . . .there are a lot of other things that will need upgraded to support the power along the way . . . if you give me an idea of HP target, i can help provide a little fuller picture of what you're heading into.

Okay I just looked up the records of the truck. A 7.3l from a year 2000 truck was put in with 134k miles. One of the injectors was bad, thus replaced and the rest resealed. I read about the leaks in the up-pipes, unfortunately AFTER I replaced the trans. Im not too sure if they are leaking or not. Is there a specific sound I should listen for? I used to have lots of old muscle cars, so I know what an exhaust leak sounds like but I cant imagine that a leaking up pipe would sound the same. Okay the K&N is out next week because I do some pretty rough off roading on occasion. Ill check on the intercooler leaks this weekend, see what I get from there. So it seems the what I need is a tuner. A friend of mine had the edge performance tuner for his gas F150, had this cool little read out on his dash, I really liked that setup. Any thoughts? Or are there better tuners for similar/less cost. The goals for my truck? Im not really sure. I would like it to go faster, have a more useable power band, be more efficient if possible. As far as HP goes, Im not really sure because I don't know what kind of HP my truck is already pushing. I would suppose 400hp would be a good goal seeing as I have a later motor with rods only rated for 400hp. Maybe when I win the lottery I can get studs, rods, fire rings, injectors, and all that good stuff. But for now I don't want it to blow up.

The "chip" I currently have is this Ottomind something or other
Attachment 27933

The Turbo
Attachment 27934
Attachment 27935
Attachment 27932

Good pictures!

The ottomind is good for 40hp or so if memory serves me correctly, so it leaves a lot on the table.

That turbo is basically stock, the "big head" waste gate is supposed to open the waste gate a little later than the factory waste gate. It looks like the turbine housing is a little smaller than stock . . .if you look closely you should see some numbers cast into the side of it and that will tell you the A/R of the housing . . . i believe stock is a .86 or .84 . . . the older 7.3's were 1.15 and were non waste gated.

For leaky up pipes- you usually won't hear it, best indicator would be soot stains at the joint. The "donut joint" is actually up by the turbo in a cast piece often called the "baby's butt" . . .it kinda resembles a butt when you have it out lol. Look for soot staining on the firewall by the back of the turbo.

Stay away from Edge tuning products . . . or any other "big box" tuner for these trucks. Unfortunately, i don't have access to a good 7.3 tuner currently. What is ideal for the 7.3 is a "flip chip". It will install in place of the otto mind chip, but will give you a switch that you mount in the dash. You can buy these with any number of different tunes loaded in them. You can switch between these tune profiles by "flipping" the switch while driving down the road. This is a really slick feature and is one of the benefits of the "older technology". DP Tuner is a sponsor on this site and has a very good track record of tuning on these trucks . . . I would start there for a tuner.

Get you a good intake on there, and a good tuner and you will be amazed at how differently your truck runs.

So like one of the "six gun" chip things from banks (not saying im getting one of those, just an example that I see often). It is a possibility that the turbine housing is smaller because of the banks kit that I assume was put on this truck.

So for the intake, can you define "good". Like what are talking, different intake tubes from the filter box to the turbo. Different (excuse my lack of a technical term) y-pipe where the intercooler feeds into the engine. Or should I replace this "ram air" banks box with something more effective.

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AFE 99.5-03 Ford 7.3L Powerstroke Bladerunner Manifold 46-10061

Something like this?

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TS Performance 6 Position Chip 7.3 Ford 99.5-01 Manual 6-Chip

And something like this? Or are there better brands

We can get you a custom tuned TS 6pos from Gearheads.


Luke

dont waste your money on that AFE thing, it will do nothing for you. i would not get anything other then a custom tuned TS chip from someone like gearhead.

Sorry, just saw your post this afternoon.

1) The smaller turbine housing - a "smaller" turbine housing means it has a smaller A/R which basically means its physically smaller. The benefit to a smaller turbine housing is quicker turbo spool up and works great for a basically stock truck, especially one with a manual trans which will have the tendency to "fall under the turbo" or let the turbo slow down when you shift gears and it takes the boost pressure a few seconds to respond and spool back up. This is part of what Banks sells for their package. Don't be fooled its not "sized" for their products, it will work just fine with anything you want to put on the truck. (granted, up to a point, if your installing huge injectors and stuff like that it wont' cut it any longer, but youre not there and thats a whole nother conversation)

2) As Diesel Dawgs Performance said, you will want a chip with "custom" tuning on it. The "big box" products are OK, but there is a lot better product out there. Both Gearhead and DP Tuner are good sources for tuning for the 7.3. A good rule of thumb is to stay away from any product that you would see advertised on TV, granted, not always true, but generally the large companies will sacrifice the personal touch you get with smaller custom shops as they attempt to appeal to a much wider audience and can no longer support a specific platform as well as the smaller product specific custom shop not run by a huge corporation. Read, i'm NOT saying their products are bad, its just that there are a lot of really REALLY good options other than the big guys. :tu:

3) Regarding the intake . . . you don't need to swap out the plumbing or any of that stuff, its actually the filter itself that is the issue. The K&N filter media is too loose for a diesel truck w/a turbocharger that creates significant air flow and can place a pretty good suction on the filter. Something like and S&B Intake is what you need. The rest of the plumbing is totally fine for you. Here is a link: S&B Filter 98-03 Ford Superduty

Good luck with your truck, they are a blast! Let us know if we can help any more!

Okay, so Ive narrowed it down to which chip I want. The DPTuner looks GREAT with little gauge pod and the LED numbers, but I threw together a couple custom tunes (not everything I wanted, just what I needed) and it came out to almost $700! The TSChip looks good and at a great price but its lacking something the DPtuner had that I found cool is a towing and decel setting (I tow large trailers full of other toys on occasion, found that the braking really really suffers). SO! One of the members her PM'ed this chip, has 8 settings that I can fill with everything I need and want.
POWER-STRUCK, osgood indiana, performance tuning

Your thoughts?

Route66Diesel: So for the intake, the banks "ram air" is sufficient for what I need, it is the filter element itself that I need to replace? The S&B you posted is a full replacement system that seems to do exactly what mine already does. Is there a better square filter I can replace the K&N with, or is it the intake box that lacks sealing power against dust?

And as far as the turbo goes, I didn't realize that originally the trucks came with two different choices in turbo size. So it just so happens that both the other 7.3l's I compared to had the smaller option turbo, while mine has the larger one? Or is there a serious optical illusion happening here.

you can choose any chip you want, but i would ride a bike before i ever put a DP on my pickup.

the turbos on the E99 and L99 are the same they just have different mounts on them.

Yeah I've ruled the DP out, too expensive for the same stuff. Anyone have any experience with the Powerstruck Chip

Turbo question- The old body style trucks came w/a 1.15 A/R tubine housing and were not waste gated. The new body style 7.3's came with the .84 (.86 i can't recall the exact number) and it was waste gated. Banks makes a different turbine housing you can install on your truck, my comments were in regards to the Banks aftermarket option for your truck, but you would need to confirm in fact you have the banks housing.

Intake/Filter question - If the filter housing provided by Banks reuses the stock sized filter, then you can replace the K&N square filter with this: S&B Universal Panel Filters

Tuning - Any of the custom tuners can make you a tow tune that will use the exhaust back pressure valve for engine braking, that's not necessarily specific to DP Tuners. What I would recommend is to do some research on the different options you have found. Gearhead's tunes have a very good reputation, so does DP Tuner. The chip itself isn't as important as who's tunes are installed on it. I would recommend giving the guys at Diesel Dawgs Performance a call on Monday and see what they can do for you . . . they can help point you in the right direction regarding what tunes will work best for you. Also, you can always add tunes to the chip later on if you want, so you don't have to buy them all up front.

For the turbo are we talking about the exhaust side of it or the intake? I took some comparative photos of another 7.3 and mine.

Top photo is my truck, bottom photo is same year F350
Attachment 27946
Attachment 27947

If I find time tomorrow ill hunt for some sort of marking on the exhaust side of the turbo.

(Just realized as I was about to post this that the engine from a 2000 F350 was put in. Did these have a different turbo? I dont know if the turbo was swapped with it or not, but I do not believe so as the truck came with the blown short block when I bought it)

Exhaust side is what you change to make it spool faster.

Both turbos in that pic are stock. Yours is an L99 and the other is an E99. Yours sits higher so it looks bigger but they are the same size. They are pretty much the same turbo.

:tu:


Here is what Banks sells as their complete turbo upgrade kit: Here

But you could buy the waste gate actuator, wheel, and turbine housing separately, so there is no guarantee.

Honestly, I wouldn't loose sleep over if you have the different turbine housing or not, it doesn't have any thing to do with your lack of power . . .that is the Otto Mind's fault. There isn't any kinda of special magic to make a turbo work better . . . its all about shifting its efficiency range. Look at it like building a motor, you build it around a certain useable rpm range. Different parts shift where the engine makes power . . .the turbos are the same way. Parts that will make a turbo work great for a stock truck, may not make that same turbo work right on a modified truck. The turbo on a stock truck won't really light well until 2k rpm or so . . . that will totally change with proper tuning. So, the Banks exhaust housing is a good piece, but so is the stock exhaust housing when coupled with a good tuner. Fix the tuning issue and your turbo issue will disappear regardless of which turbine housing (exhaust housing) you have on it. :tu: