6.4 stock turbos on a 6.0?
 

I went to my buddies house earlier to look at the 6.4 setup to see how difficult it would be to try to squeeze the compound setup in a 6.0 we pulled the trucks side by side, it seems as though they may have moved the engine 1.5" forward other than that I do not see much reason why they couldn't fit. Main issues I observed were:
Possible relocation of FICM
Possible relocation of Coolant tank (I think it could be squeezed)
Tight intake bend at low pressure turbo behind the alternator (relocation of alt/pivot turbo like stock turbo?)
Pedestal (have no idea if the 6.4 pedestal would fit on 6.0 anyone have any clue?)
VGT controll (I feel comfortable to say I could figure out a solution to this, if not then purchase a premade controller.)
Intake manifold (I read in other threads about this some guys are saying swap of intake manifold would be necessary.)

Things that seem to be of little/no concern:
Up pipes (would modify and install external wastegate at EGR flange.)
VGT Actuator cooling (depends on how VGT is solved)
Downpipe (strait forward)
Intake pipes (fairly simple to make some custom piping)

What do you guys think? I can get my hands on the turbo's no problem, some of the other incidentals might be a little bit more trickey... (up pipes, pedestal etc.)

Is anyone here near new Jersey?

You'd spend less money and time just buying a 6.4 and selling your 6.0. Then 600hp wouldn't be anything but a big tune and a DPF delete...

How do you plan on controlling the VGT in the 6.4 compounds? This subject has been beat to death on other boards and the consensus is always the same, it would take WAY too much time/money/effort to even try to get them to work. Otherwise we'd all be doing it already.

They wont fit in the valley of a 6.0 anyways. The intake manifold is different shaped to get them to fit.


As for putting 205's into your current ride... Have you set money aside for a built trans yet?

Aren't the intakes interchangeable? I know they're not the same but aren't the mounting patterns the same?

The front part where the intake elbow mounts is positioned differently. I'd imagine other than that they will bolt up, since the heads are the same. It is not going to be an easy task no matter what. It would seriously be easier and likely cheaper to just do your own compounds with custom fab. It will be VERY difficult to control the VGT setup on the 6.4 chargers.

Why not just sell the 6.0 and get a 6.4? You can get almost 600hp on tunes, and when you're ready to get to 1000hp, the recipe's for such are already out there. Far easier to do with a 6.4, and still DD it. You are not going to DD a 800+hp 6.0, it's just not happening.

Craig from MPD just laid down 1306hp and 2000+tq with his cabelas 6.4, on a single 75mm charger and two stages of spray... and he has fuel left over.

Why not? The best answer I can give u for that is... Because I'm just a pain I the ass.

That's what I thought about the Intake. So how about the turbo pedestal? Have any idea if the 6.4 will easily mount to the 6.0 block?

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All joking aside I have rethought my goals as it does not make sense for me to build the same engine once for a 500-600hp DD and rebuild another one to put in its place and rebuild this one for high HP.
I also own my truck outright I don't want to sell it and have to finance a 6.4 doesn't make sense to me. As well as I like the front end's of the 03-07's.

I am also not intentionally trying to beat a dead horse but on all of the threads that I have found regarding this 6.4 compounds on a 6.0 it's all been talk, ther has been no hard evidence of why it can't be done. One guy left it open ended said he was going to start playing and.... End of thread.
As much as everyone says "not gonna happen" I say why? I feel like there has to be something major putting a damper on it. If I could squeeze 500-550hp out of stock 6.4 turbo's on a 6.0 I would be damn proud and very satisfied.
If the only thing that is holding back a 6.4 compound on a 6.0 is the VGT. Then I would really like to figure out how to make the VGT work. Especially since it seems like it would be mosly a matter of stock manifold, up-pipes, turbo pedestal, and turbo. Swap them out and the only custom work is the adjustment of a downpipe, waste gate, and intake tubes.

I am going to keep doing research see if I can find that damper. Till then game on...

If anyone is interested in helping out, the remaining pieces to the puzzle are:
6.4 intake manifold
6.4 up-pipes (I'll start off with stock ones)
6.4 turbo oil supply lines

If you know someone who has the parts, or a place where i can purchase them from please let me know.

Most 6.4 guys use 6.0 exhaust manifolds, they're sturdier. You'd need custom up-pipes for sure, and custom down pipe. The 6.4 intake manifold may or may not be a direct drop in. That's all the EASY PART.

How are you going to control the VGT function? This is a tuning question, not a fabrication question, most of the TUNERS (the guys who write the tunes) have already said this is basically impossible. Not completely impossible, but the time and money spent on making those chargers work on the 6.0 are not worth it, just build a real set of compounds for it, you'll be light years ahead. The whole idea of going with the 6.4 chargers is they're cheap and readily available right? In the end, it will NOT end up being cheaper.

Well that eliminates an item from the parts list...

Can you elaborate in reason for custom up-pipes? Why not use stockers and just modify as needed?

As for the VGT I have an idea that I would like to try, I dont want to share it because i feel it is either a really good idea or a really bad idea. Otherwise I read a post from a guy with fleece performance who has a turbo controller that he says would do the trick.

Assuming the best for this project, my idea works or the controller works. What size injectors do you think would be good with this turbo? Considering I have abandoned my original power goals, and I would be extremely satisfied if I could reach around 500HP. Are 205's too much for these still? Or would 190's be better?

As it stands I am under $1k with everything but VGT solution. So I don't see this ever reaching the cost of black widow's compound kit, $6,800 (ouch).

Time for a new thread yet? What do you think Mdub (Mike?)?
I am going to try to make a go of this considering I've started buying parts now.

Stroke'on

Jon

I'm guessing the controller used from fleece is aimed at the duramax crowd... their VGT setup is WAY easier to control than that of the 6.0 or 6.4.

This is also why we don't even use the stock 6.0 chargers in a compound application, because they're terribly hard to control in that configuration. The duramax's use a vane position sensor, simple and easy to control. The 6.0 uses backpressure guesstimates and equations to control the vane position. So on a 6.0 VGT is commanded, not referenced.

Also the 6.4 VGT has an electronic actuator, while the 6.0 is hydraulic.

Even if you got it all to work... the LARGE charger in the 6.4 setup is only a 64mm charger. Do you think it's worth all of that to only end up with a 64mm charger? A lot of guys use those and larger as singles on a 6.0. Also the exhaust housings are quite tight on these, so backpressure will be high.

Just some food for thought.

I applaud your efforts if you want to continue to do so, but just know that this idea has been thought about before.

Keep us posted whatever you want to do.

I'll make this all it's own thread now...

Anyone happen to have some documentation on the 6.0 VGT and 6.4 VGT controlers with voltage ranges and such?

As for the size of the chargers, what size is the stock 6.0 charger? 58mm? Again I ask how much power could I get out of the 6.4 compounds? It has to be more than what I can push with a stock charger, maybe somewhere around 500hp? Depending on how hot I run it with injectors. Which I would like to stick with maximizing my dollar and use 205's, but maybe for my case of pulling a 9,000lb trailer 190s would run cooler and cleaner?

You mention the exhaust housing is tight. How so? Is it an area that I would be able to port it out without affecting the spooling of the turbine and achieve less back pressure?

Well let's just say things are under way, I have a pedestal and intake manifold on the way. In the next couple of days I will have the turbo on its way too. I am still trying to find up pipes (even the upper half of cut off ones).

Everyone's efforts and input here will be greatly appreciated. If you have done some research of your own on this idea, please share I would love to hear your findings.

I think I am going to find someone to make me a new powerstroke badge "6.0.4 Powerstroke"

Jon

I'm with mike, for all of the time, money, and hassle, I'd trade in my 6.0 on a 6.4, DPF delete program and be done with it.

See I used to have attachment issues with women, now I fugured out how to controll that... Diesel trucks :argh:
I love my truck, wouldn't trade it for the world.. Ok maybe a 6.7 KR dually.:tu:

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Joking aside, a fellow 6.0 enthusiast/friend said "why not just buy a drop in VGT that would make the same ammount of power for 1/10 of the work."
My response: "Where is the fun in that."

stroke'on

A set of quick spooling compounds would be sweet, I just dont' see how you'll get the PCM on the 6.0 to do anything with the 6.4 turbos. Stand along controller looks like the only option.

For those who are interested, Jon here has started a long thread on PSA where he is getting a lot of response. Not that I want to direct anyone away from here, but for this project it's above most of our heads, and all the guys doing anything with 6.0's in the performance world are over there.

Looks like the temporary answer to controlling VGT will be a vac/boost actuated setup till I find an electrical answer. All of the 6.4 parts are on their way, some have arrived already. I'm starting to think I may need to get a 6.4 downpipe. Anyone have any thoughts on how that will work?

Couldn't hurt to get one to check out, they're cheap enough. I'm sure you can find a stocker somewhere if need be.

So just an update. I have all parts but the turbo, it's paid for, but Im waiting for the guys to send it, going on 20 days now... As soon as I get it I will be starting the project. I will be back with updates

Jon

Jon you stomp a foot on that deadbeat yet?

Subscribed! Lets see it happen Jon.

Well the turbo's arrived, parts missing damage to the turbine wheel of the VGT Turbo. I paid $500 for a turbo worth $100. I hate shmucks like this, I am going to continue with PayPal to see if I can work something out. I don't mind paying $100 for what I got but not $500.

Kurt, u bet ur :moon: I'll make it happen. At least I can start fabing my pedestal and up pipes now.

any updates?:tu:

Update.......

The truck is currently not running since I blew the FICM 30 seconds before I was about to fire it up and take it for another test drive. I am still resolving some air/exhaust leaks. The last photo shows the new FICM mount location so I do not arc it against the battery again and blow another $550. Today I am going to fab a mount to hold a temporary actuator for the small turbo's VGT, the electronic version is still in development stages.
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Test drive. At this point I had a massive oil leak from the drain tubes that desperately needed to be corrected.

Some guys on PSNation were asking for parts lists for what is required to do the project so here is what I posted....

Not sure if I mentioned this here yet, but I am looking to offer a kit for sale, I will make all modifications, and fabricate parts required parts.

6.4 stock parts:
•exhaust manifolds
•up pipes (would need to be modified slightly would be included in my kit price)
•Intake manifold
•Turbo's
•Turbo VGT actuator
•Turbo crossover tube
•Down pipe (I used 4" flo pro)

6.0 stock parts
•Dual alternator setup for relocating alternator to lower position. If you have dual alternators you will need to remove the upper one. Either case the main belt needs to be shortened.
•E-series FICM harness

Fabricated parts (these are parts I can make available for purchase)
•Turbo pedestal
•Both IC pipes
•Pre-turbo to intake pipes
•FICM Mount

Parts requiring some modification
•6.0 PCM-FICM harness to be extended (this may need to be done in vehicle).

There are many other little incidental items that are needed to finish it up but that'a all the big stuff.

I got the truck back on the road today, she sure pulls way more than with the stock turbo. It seems like they could use some more fuel. WOT it is smoke free on the canned SCT performance tune, where as with the stock turbo, I would smoke like crazy any time I really leaned into it. I am quite impressed after today's test drive. Tomorrow I will finish up my temporary VGT actuation and I will report back with how the small turbo does cleaning up the fuel at the low end.

Shockingly the EGT's were INCREADIBLY low on my WOT runs today, I am wondering if I have an issue with my EGT sensor... I never broke 700*

So here ya' go guys, just a couple video's tonight. Tomorrow I am going to tweak the actuator to smooth out the transition from LP to HP turbo's then Sunday is Dyno time!

This is hands down one of the most interesting threads I have ever read. I've contemplated this for a long time just like everyone else. Good to see some hard evidence that it sure can fit in 6.0 bay pretty nice. This setup even looks cleaner than any of the twin setups for sale. Cant wait for the updates on the vgt controls and tuning aspects. Awesome job TheRealMuhcoy!!!

Update
The truck is on the road, running well. I have no other setup to compare it to, but it is fun! I am still on stock injectors and running IDP's Xtreme Street tune. Here is a video at 75MPH, hard to see the Edge, but EGT's were about 750*

I will be building my injectors soon.

6.0.4 cruising with IDP Xtreme street tune - YouTube

How much power do you think it added over the stock turbo

Any more updates on the wicked 6.0.4??

Double post.

There is no question that these turbo's flow more than the stocker. On a canned SCT tune (garbage tune) I made 366HP, I never dyno'd the stock turbo on that tune so I can't say exactly what the gains were.

I will say that they are a major improvement to the stock turbo because I was too lazy to to upload a tow tune before I hitched up to our 7500lb 20' enclosed trailer. Here is how it did pulling the trailer on IDP's Extreme Race tune


I am working on making a kit for sale if anyone is interested let me know.

Do you still sell the kits?

Hey man I'm looking into doing this also. How much do you sell the install kit for. I need just the pedestal piping and ficm mount. Thanks Robert

Kit
 

deffinetly interested in a kit like that looks good and sounds good way to go doing what that say isn't possible