maybe youd have to pay more, maybe you wouldn't. That falls within the companys customer service. Even then you call em up tell them whats goin on, get a new tune via email. If you have problems everything can be data logged and sent to your tuner so they can look it over and tweak the tunes if necessary. You don't get any of that with edge or anybody else. EFI live is extremely popular for a reason.

It's digital diesel tuning taken to the exreme - great for racers, builders and of course the people selling and supporting it. The other 99% of the diesel driving public just want a reliable improvement on what Dodge loads up.

Cite your numbers for the "popularity" you speak of, and we'll see just how popular it is. The reality is there are a lot of vocal fanbois like you on the forums promoting it. Plus, every yahoo who buys it and doesn't even know how to use it is going to say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread because he plunked down his money. No other reason.

Its not any more extreme than anything else. The diff is all the rest mass produce tunes to put money in their pocket with little effort as possible. Not saying those tuners suck but, theres always something better. The popularity is everywhere? Are you calling smarty reliable??? Do you know how many engines ive replaced/repaired due to smarty, bullydog, ts mp8 just to name a few. Are you aware of what epa has been up to? Have you priced a delete tuner for 07 up trucks or even had good luck finding them? Around here for the guy wanting reliability and a mpg bump with deletes and doesn't want an expensive tuner with tunes he will never use, its efi tuning with a 50 horse bump if they want it and its 300 dollars. Try to pull that off with anything else. You don't have to know how to tune or tune your own truck, its not expensive and at most its no more expensive than anything else. I agree with you on the bunches of guys buying the packages intended for shops who have no clue what they are doing. There are a lot of professional shops that are well versed with efi and know what they are doing that can write tunes for you to put on your truck. Its no diff. than buying a tuner with mass produced tunes wrote on them. The advantage is vehicle specific tunes and a huge ability to grow in power if you decide to. Not to mention the emissions deletes for the newer trucks. Seems the biggest problem with efi live is the ignorance that is out there. A great example is your last couple of posts.

You sir seem to know nothing about efi live. But your perfectly fine with paying up to $1600 for a $15 fancy box with 4 generic tunes in it that doesn't have the ability to actually return your truck to the factory tune. But $650 for an autocal custom tuned to your truck is too much...lol

Sent with a Droid RAZR in one hand and 14,000 volts in the other.

Ad hominem attacks do nothing to refute anything I've said except support my contention, which I'll now expound on: EFI live-type vehicle programmers (of which the diesel variety you seem so fond of is one example) are simply the next step to applying digital aftermarket manipulation to the increasingly un-user friendly electronics found in today's vehicles. It is an aftermarket only all too ready to more frequently dupe customers out of their money in an ongoing basis in increasing quantities.

Attack me all you want, doesn't change a thing unless you can produce these mysterious popularity numbers. I'd be willing to bet it is less than 2 percent of the aftermarket diesel programmer market last year, even with all the fanboys hyping it up. Why? Hmmm....

So are you saying EFI is any less vulnerable to abuse in the hands of a stupid, lead-footed driver? Got any more anecdotes? How about some facts...

The thing you either fail to realize or comprehend is that the cost of defeating manufacturers software is going up and the market for that kind of thing is going down at the same time. Keep selling it to anyone who will pay. More power to you!

No pun intended.

Putting words in someone's mouth is a rookie debating mistake - especially in this case when your opponent was driving diesels while you were still wet behind the ears.

Maybe you should go back and re-read what I said in order to fill in the gaps in your understanding.

i'm not saying that EFI Live is the most popular tuning device on the market. I for one would never decide what tuner to put on my truck just because everyone else is using it. there is no "debating" which tuner is the best tuner on the market, all you have to do is look at this years diesel power challenge. every single truck that was in the competition that EFI Live supports was EFI Live tuned. I have been custom engine and transmission tuning with EFI Live since Oct of 2008 and have been running a full time diesel repair shop longer then that. I know a thing or two about tuners and I could show you ecm reads from "box" tuners that would scare the crap out of you if it were on your engine.

you may have been driving diesels longer then I have been alive but that in no way makes you more qualified then me in anything other then turning a wheel.

So I guess the "nice" thing about EFI (for the people who sell and program it) is the vast majority of customers no more qualified with their trucks than being able to "turn a wheel" is that any time they need help with it they can pay someone else to do it? Maybe if they are lucky they won't even have to pay for an email with the magic solution for free? :w2:

Maybe another "nice" thing about it is you might be able to use it win the Diesel Power Challenge?"

Sweeeeeet. :c:

Let me know when I get the marketing hype just right.

I think what you fail to realize is the market is wide open for getting rid of the junk manufacturers are forced to install by the epa. Maybe you need to check the prices guys are paying for delete tuners if they can even find them.

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Its funny how people dislike what they dont understand. Most people would rather enjoy their trucks than work on them i know i do and i work on them for a living. Efi is no harder to use than anything else. Ask the dmax crowd with dsp5 switches or cummins guys with a spade or the guys that that are running a simple flash. Every tuner on the market works on the same idea. Efi live is just more versatile. It almost seems you are against any tuner or box being installed on a truck. If thats the case i have no argument with you there but, for anybody wanting power with room to grow ill tell them hands down efi. Theres no reason to spend big money for a 160+ horse tuner if its always ran on a 90 horse tune. Strokes have had custom tunes for a long time so whats your big greif with dmax and cummins guys having the same thing?