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-   -   Intercoolers 12v Cummins (https://www.dieselbombers.com/5-9l-12v-performance/116708-intercoolers-12v-cummins.html)

loucojegue 11-11-2013 06:46 PM

Intercoolers 12v Cummins
 
Looking for pointers on intercooler choices. My coumpound turbo upgrades still have me fighting EGT issues. I'm planning on rolling the truck back in the garage for a tear down and address timing issues and maintenance.

I've played with fuel plates and added overflow valve and the Airdog fuel system. Generally as I spend more I'm slowly gaining drivability.... not where I was before the twin swap yet but I'm hopeful eventually to get the recipe right.

Intercoolers? I've got a stock Intercooler, with upgraded boots on it... Curious if its worth an upgrade. Seems not that common a topic discussed on the forum... BD has a fair price and has been reccommended by some bombers.... Mishimoto forum supporter... ?

Does the benefit of an intercooler upgrade warrant the $$? My stock system seems to be holding together, but I'm hunting for dropping EGT's. My fear is that the benefit will be subtle at best.

Last running EGT'S

55 to 65 mph at 700 with no real throttle boost at 2-4 PSI

65 to 75 mph at 800-900* slight throttle Boost 5 PSI

80 mph at 1000* to 1100* slight throttle increase Boost 10-15psi

WOT or heavy Accel Boost max at 40PSI, Temps jump quickly to 1300* plus While spooling up fuel dumps hard (Smoke), and temps skyrocket

Any lugging at 1700 to 2000 RPM end up with a 1100 to 1200* EGT, I drop to Drive from OD and the RPM jumps will fairly quickly drop the EGT to 1000 or less...

turbo2332 11-11-2013 07:07 PM

your temps arnt anywhere near scary? the biggest problem i see is that you are only running 40psi of boost. is that 20 and 20? which charger is doing the work? with compounds ide personally want to be in the 60+psi range or whats the point. mover more air and cool things down. temps will be slightly warmer on light throttle due to the fact that you took some efficiency away from your small charger when you stuck a big one underneath it. its going to spool a bit slower and be just a little bit more backed up (temporarily) before big brother starts doing the work. ide put my timing in the 18-20* range

loucojegue 11-11-2013 08:39 PM

My Boost gauge is reading the combination after intercooler from both. Max so far has been 42 PSI with all my tinkering.... Yes I'd expected more than that for sure, and I had also expected a earlier boost curve too... Seems to me that I have something fudged up it acts lazy like a big single to me that only really pushes hard when rpms are 2000 and up. I'm really tempted to start futzing with the wastegate.
Timing I'm hoping will be my big fix, everything else so far has left me unhappy. All opinions point to a 20 or so timing point. Will that hamper my cold weather starts? At the moment one of my only happy points is that it's starting better than ever... overflow valve, afc tweeks, airdog has helped it out.

Lastly Intercoolers, ever change them out and see a change?

turbo2332 11-11-2013 08:47 PM

ive never messed with an inter-cooler. what size chargers are you running?

RedChevy44 11-11-2013 10:48 PM

Advancing your timing will help your cold weather starts.

loucojegue 11-12-2013 12:11 AM

Hey Turbo 2332,

Aurora 3000 is a 57/64/12 with a Aurora 5000 71/70/12 .... more I read the more it seems like the 5000 is doing the work... many symptoms come up in the Diesel power mag article on this compound set...

turbo2332 11-12-2013 05:20 AM

the 5000 seems to be a strange size? i would expect it to be bigger. have your little charger do the work till 25-30psi than have the larger charger make similar boost. so in the 60psi range. tighten your gate on the secondary. it would be nice to have a gauge for the secondary even if its just a temp gauge ran loose in the cab. and timing past 20 will make it pretty hard to start if you live in a cool climate. lots more white smoke @ start-up and idle (cold) and the engine will be much rattlyier.

loucojegue 11-12-2013 04:00 PM

Cripes can a Cummins 12v get Rattlyier! The Neighbors love me already!!! :)

turbo2332 11-12-2013 05:02 PM

uhhh..... yes if you are used to factory timing than once you advance things it will sound to the virgin ear like its about ready to come apart. they rattle and carry on with some timing.

JBearSVT 11-12-2013 05:14 PM

I don't really have anything productive to add, but by way of observation, I'm running the same max boost, almost exactly the same EGT's at the same speeds and pressures, with only my old stock turbo as you are with twins. And that doesn't sound right at all.

loucojegue 11-12-2013 10:28 PM

yes its not working (Compound set)
 
Hi J Bear,

Yup its not working worth a darn... I had a much happier truck with the HX35 and some dime store P-pump mods.... I've spent a fortune and have a headache now.... should have enjoyed the 300hp and reliability I had.... 9K$ and counting just in parts and problems thus far.... would have made a nice down payment on a shiney new cummins.... I'm suffering a bit up in the Far East of Canada... not enough local Cummins tallent to check my mess.

turbo2332 11-13-2013 05:16 AM

get a gauge on the small charger. ide like to see what both chargers are doing on their own psi wise.

Chrisco148 12-09-2013 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by turbo2332 (Post 1035086)
get a gauge on the small charger. ide like to see what both chargers are doing on their own psi wise.

I agree, near impossible to troubleshoot without one. Sounds like a waste gate issue or an air leak. Did you test for air leaks? You don't have a gate on each charger right? Was this a box kit?

Rx7man 12-13-2013 05:52 PM

Agreed, I think the small charger isn't doing squat. As for timing, I found advancing the timing made my truck much harder to start... I was thinking of putting it to 15* for wintertime... I'm at about 18 right now and it needs more than one heater cycle to start if its much below freezing, if it's -20C out I am not sure it would start. I'd recommend that you put the timing forward 2*... this will make the turbos spool up slower, but your EGT's will drop. I don't see any problem with yours right now. Right now with my 60mm hx35 cruise at 60 mph (4.10 gears) is about 700, and on a really hard pull with a heavy trailer on a long hill it sits about 1200*F, 35PSI, 1800 RPM. Those temps are before the turbo. I'd wait until spring to change the timing if you daily drive it and can't always have it plugged in.

akcoalroller 02-11-2014 01:11 PM

It seems so strange that it is not acting right at all....but I have to agree that another gauge should be added and the timing should be addressed

I am also capable of hitting 42psi all day in OD. I am to the point where I need more air because I cant even put my foot to the floor anymore or I risk Overspeeding and blowing the turbo.

JasonQuartermile 02-13-2014 10:15 AM

I have the same setup on my truck, and I'm also the one who did the DP Mag article. If you're looking for power below 2K then you're a stock turbo or blower kind of guy. A stocker will get going at about 1500rpm and have full boost by 2000rpm, with about a 450rwhp ceiling. The twin setup you have should get going by about 2000rpm, and be full boost by 2500rpm. Add 500rpm more up top through valvesprings and such, and you've basically got the same truck, you've just moved the powerband up a bit. On the other hand, an A3k/5k combo should support 700rwhp or more all-out.

Your boost levels drving around seem normal...although peak boost does not. I had 57psi on my twins with only about 450rwhp worth of fuel, so something is going on, somewhere. Check for both boost and drive pressure leaks.

Finally, your truck will never be stock again, so might as well embrace it and go big. I've been over 1600 on EGT more times than I can count on both of my trucks, and as long as it's for like 5-10 seconds, I don't worry about it. Sustained heat is what kills most rigs.

JasonQuartermile 02-14-2014 02:09 PM

Figured I'd add and expand a little, since I believe the A3k/5k is a good kit. Ive towed 12,000 pounds up a 7% grade at 60mph with 1200deg egt, a stock 6.4L got dragged down to 50mph on the same grade, so pretty cool to see the old truck do so well. Eventually, the engine temps got to 230, so I had to back off a bit. RPMs had to be above 2500rpm as well to keep egt down. Just the nature of the beast.

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Also, peak boost is 68psi right now at full throttle, so as soon as you figure out your boost issue, there's plenty of room to grow.


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