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-   -   No or Hard starting (https://www.dieselbombers.com/5-9-liter-cr-dodge-cummins-03-07/65065-no-hard-starting.html)

tang8u 12-16-2010 09:38 PM

No or Hard starting
 
Have a 2500 4 x 4 Build in 09/02 Which makes it a 03

Truck has p0602 code but has been reflashed. Truck always started with this code being stored, I have just lived with it.
Truck will not start when it is cold or warm. If you spray starting fluid in intake, starts fine and ok the rest of the day. It may take around 5 hours of sitting to bring back the no start condition.

This is what has been done so far
Changed fuel filter
Changed lift pump........runs 17 PSI when key is cycled
runs for 35 seconds, out put 2 1/8 qt., fuel is clean
Injection pump was replace, and two injectors. Truck ran fine for about a month.
Back to no start. Checked all above again. Same Installed a fuel pressure gauge at injection rail. Pressure low. Installed pressure regulator valve.
Started ok for about a week then back to no start.
Install pressure gauge back on rail. When in specs.

Question what tells the injectors to fire? I know the ECM but what is the ECM looking at? Crank or CAM Sensors? I think the cam sender. If I had one of these bad I would think I would have a P code. If I unplug one and try to start the truck the check engine light will come on and when I read the code it related to what I unplugged.

If I had an injector bleeding down issue I would think the truck would start, but have rough idle? Or white, black smoke, or my oil would be increasing due to fuel leaking past the rings. Why would one leaking down injector not let the truck start? You would think fuel getting to the injection pump, pump increases fuel pressure in rail, may take two start cycles, but I think it would start? When cranking my pressure gauge at the rail reads 1876 pi, truck running it is around 2250 psi.

I have heard of a "Block Off " tool to cap each injector on at a time, But I have not been able to find information on this tool.
Was thinking of buying one steel injector line, cut on and weld it shut.
Any Ideas would be most helpful

I found this tool.Common Rail)
Used to block off common rail to test injectors. ******Caution-Common rail under high pressure******
2003-2007 Common Rail 5.9L
But it looks like does not block off one injector at a time.

The "High Pressure Injection Rail"
How do I determine if I have a bad injection rail pump.
All the job of the pump is to increase fuel pressure for the injectors to have a burst of spray when they are fired from the ECM. What pressure should I have at the high-pressure rail? At cranking speed? I can hear the Fuel Control Actuator click on start up. Can I read fuel pressure, at the fuel pressure sender, with a voltmeter? Is there a Spec for this? Is there a sender that will keep the injector from firing if the rail does not come up to correct pressure? Should I be able to hear the injector click on cranking? What is the ECM looking for to make the injectors fire? Cam sender signal? Oil Pressure? Injection rail Pressure?
If I had a bad pump why does it run so well once it is started? Is this because of higher pressure being built through the pump when the engine is running? My reading now are 1850 pressure on cranking and 2250 psi at idle.

There has to be a simple way to determine if the pump is bad again. I feel like I have more of an electical issue rather then fuel. Senser out put not with in specs on cranking.
Thanks Tang

thebreeze04 12-17-2010 10:03 PM

sounds like hight return from the injector, possible loose connecter tubes but more than likely the injector are worn out

Here_Have_A_Bullet 12-22-2010 11:59 PM

My Father in-law had trouble with his 04 not starting or hard starting. Turns out the guy that had it before him put improper injectors in the truck and once they were replaced it solved the issue.

Black Smoke Mafia 12-24-2010 02:08 PM

We just had this problem with my moms truck. Would not start without starting fluid PERIOD. One bad injector was part of it, but there was a small hole in the fuel line that made it lose it's prime. The way to fix that is to put on a clear line, run it then shut it off and let it sit. Whatch the fuel and follow it to find where the culprit is. Then you can clamp the problem area. Could be check valve in back of the head too, but I'd venture to say it's a leak in your line.

dodgecruzin 12-24-2010 08:17 PM

you mentioned a check valve in back of the head. Can explain where the "head" that the check valve is located at?

Thanks,
Dodgecruzin

Black Smoke Mafia 12-24-2010 08:57 PM

I have never gotten into one to find it directly, I just know it can be one of the big causes with a problem like this. I beleive it is somewhwere in the intake part of the head. But the normal side effects with this usually means it won't start even if you have literally just shut it off, because where it is in the head, it loses it's prime immediatley, where as if there is a pin hole in the line, it will be a much slower loss of the prime

cummin_un_glued 12-26-2010 06:14 PM

the "overflow" bolt that they are talking about is on the back of the head next to the firewall it is a banjo bolt and has a line coming from it...doubt that is the problem...sounds like excessive return flow from the injectors...you can get a test fitting that you put into the fuel filter housing into the line that comes from the overflow bolt and you can test the amount of return flow from the injectors...we see this problem alot...simply worn injectors from poor fuel filtration by the factory 7 micron filter....replace injectors and add a 2 micron filter

tang8u 02-23-2011 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by Here_Have_A_Bullet (Post 672989)
My Father in-law had trouble with his 04 not starting or hard starting. Turns out the guy that had it before him put improper injectors in the truck and once they were replaced it solved the issue.


Yes

Replaces all 6 injectors

2 months 12000 miles No more issues

Tang


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