High EGT Range
 

Still trying to work out the problem with my '05 2500 4x4. Still getting the intermittent PO299 Turbocharger underboost code that throws me into limp mode. Been to the stealership and even the "guru" there has never heard of this problem for this motor, only for the new motors. I've yet to be able to get it to them while the cel is on. However, not that it would seem to do any good, because they want to throw parts at it instead of determine what/why the problem is occurring, and I'll have no part of that (actually my WALLET won't have any part of that).

So here's the only common occurrence since the problem started: Higher than normal EGT's.

My normal range, highway, cruise at around 75mph, was 800-850*F @ 8psi. Going over a high rise bridge such as crossing the MS river in Baton Rouge, or through Bridge City, I could maintain 75mph on the incline and still barely touch 1000*F @<18psi.

Now, and since the problem has started, I notice that my normal cruise on the highway at 75mph rides 900*F @ 2psi more often than not, and accelerating to get to speed, or crossing the same high rise bridges, I hit 1400*F QUICK and still don't see over 6-8psi! I have the Bullydog Triple dog w/outlook, and since the problem started to occur, I have uninstalled the proggie, and returned to stock, with no improvement.

I have noticed though that even though I have uninstalled the BD, my exhaust is still rich.

I can't positively identify the issue. Turbo? MAP? Fueling system? The turbo is nice and clean, spins effortlessly with the fingertips, no slack/slop, and you can hear it trying to spool up tho the tone isn't what it used to be (I've gone from hearing a 747 to hearing a cessna, lol). Waste gate operates freely, no slop or sticking points open/closed. Turbo-to-manifold ducting is snug and no leaks found (though I'm not overly confident of my test procedures). MAP sensor is nice and clean, no dirt/trash/discoloration. NO back pressure on exhaust. PO299 is the only CEL code that has ever come up from day one.

:argh:

I'm simply lost at what else to do to the dang truck, and now I've really gotten myself into a pickle since as of Dec 31, I am officially an unemployed statistic. Company laid off nearly 500. #^@&ers.

Any suggestions on what I may have missed? What else is there to check?

sounds like a boost leak since yer missin about 10psi.....................I would suspect the boots, please explain how you checked for leaks

sorry bout the job man :madd:

Built a turbo "plug" with a 3" to 2" rubber coupler (for drain pipe). Drilled and tapped a 2" pvc plug to accept a schrader valve and 0-50psi pressure gauge. Fought for about an hour to force the 3" side up and onto the turbo intake flange (3" too small, 4" too big). Had to use some wd-40 and trim the lip off the inside of the rubber to get it to fit over the turbo. What a PITA.

Set compressor regulator to 12psi and let her rip. I never showed any pressure on my gauge at the turbo, but the only place I could find the air escaping was at the exhaust. I sprayed everything down liberally with soapy water looking for bubbles, and never found any. Often wonder if I should have used a boost gauge instead of a normal air pressure gauge, don't see why it would matter in this application, though. Even though I was putting a regulated 12-15psi into it, I wasn't brave enough to plug the exhaust to force the system to build pressure. My luck and with the track record I've got around my place for blowing things up, I'd have a million pieces of intercooler all over my back yard.

Checked and double checked all boots and clamps (not the factory, these are upgraded heavy duty suckers) and all seem fine.

Is there maybe something I should have done differently? Is there a different method for checking? Or have I skipped a step in the process and my mind just doesn't see where? I'm subject to do such things!

when your drivin down the highway and let the pedal all the way out then slowly bring the throttle back in do you hear a funny rattling noise it almost sounds like an injector sticking

yer pressure check was addiquate

now I am wonnerin bout other things?????????????????

No, haven't noticed anything similar to that. The turbo is the only sound difference. Before the issue, it sounded like a jet taking off, now it sounds very similar to the little KKK and garret turbos the mercedes 3.0's run. It's still there, still whistling, just not scaring the b'jesus outta the local birds anymore! lol.

Even when it's in limp mode, it runs like a "good" n/a diesel. Very much like the old 90's n/a powerstroke in my buddy's F550 wrecker. It's got plenty of power, so long as you don't need it over 55mph or more than 2100rpm running through the gears.

As of right now, I'm just shy of dropping the down-pipe again and looking at the exhaust side of the turbo just to make sure I haven't melted anything.

When I first bought my truck I but a bd ram x power chip on it that chip maxed out my rail pressure at 27k hitting the relief at wot after about 6 months of that i lost power and my egts sky rocketed didnt think much of it kept driving it took the bd off and purchased a smarty well the smarty helped but the damage was already done about three months after the smarty my engine one day just started burning oil pulled the head and #4 piston had a hole all the way threw it took the injectors to have them tested and three of them the tips were split rebuilt the engine installed the dragon flow injectors and havent had problems since my egts a 70 are around 600 at wot around 950

Well, I think I can monitor my rail pressure with my outlook, I'll check on that and post findings. I'm definitely not burning or loosing any oil, and even reaching the 5k miles mark since last oil change, no noticeable drop in oil level on stick. I often wonder if it's an injector issue causing the heat and exhaust haze, but not sure how to verify.

When I first bought the truck, with BD installed and set to extreme, the egt's never got over 1250 even when getting on it hard. I drove it for a year or so like that before any problems arose. I'm a light footed driver 99% of the time and have always kept a watchful eye on the outlook for egt's and boost pressure. It was a year of driving before I ever even knew that there was a defuel setting (which was set to 1300) and it scared the crapola outta me when I first noticed that I hit that range, and it's been down hill since.

OK. What I can monitor is the Injection Control Pressure. Don't know if these values help any, but here's what I'm reading:
IDLE: 6000psi (+/-10psi)

transmission in neutral, engine unloaded:

16000psi (+/-20) @ 2krpm (0psi boost)
20000psi (+/-20) @ 2.5krpm (1psi boost)
23750psi (+/-20) @ 3krpm (1psi boost)

transmission engaged, from dead stop to 70mph, WOT:

Max reading 19k psi before shift points @/around 2.5krpm
Pressure ranged from 8k-12k while wrapping up from dead stop and from the bottom of each shift, pressure would begin to peak from 15k-19k right before each shift point.

In this test run, max boost pressure was 7psi, I let off the throttle at 70mph when the egt's hit 1400*F (was still WOT)

Any of this helpful?

Im almost positive its the injector tips the only thing that makes egts go up like that is extreme overfueling but here in a little while i will do the same rial pressure test on my truck

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Ok here are my results: Trans in nuetral: Rial pressure: Boost pressure: 16000psi 2psi 18000psi 6psi 20000psi 10psi Trans in gear: 40 mph 17000psi 4psi boost On highway from dead stop wot: 825 deg. egts 0 to 70 22000psi rail press. 37 psi boost cruisin at 70 18000psi 8 psi boost you can just change the tips but before you do that make double sure you have no leaks in your intake system after the turbo on the boost side and when i diagnose a low power complaint i read boost pressure when its low it doesnt always mean that the turbo is bad it could also mean that the engine isnt performing strong enough to spool up the turbo and if it was the turbo you would know it because you could see the damage just by looking at the intake side of it

Looking at the turbo from the intake side, it's absolutely nothing abnormal, nice an clean, sharp edges on vanes, everything's as it should be. As for motor not performing strong enough to spool turbo, I dunno, but I know that even in limp mode, I can hit the "tow/haul" button and climb pretty quickly to 3krpm with WOT. The motor simply feels like a good, strong, NON-TURBO motor, unfortunately, it's a TURBO motor that's supposed to be acting like a turbo motor, but ain't. I guess what really has me off guard is the fact that I appear to be getting more fuel than I should, assuming that if the turbo is NOT producing boost, or the boost being produced isn't getting to the intake *where the map sensor is*, then shouldn't the computer be cutting fueling back in absence of boost? I would understand if it were a boost leak, and the map sensor was at/near the turbo, but it's at the receiving end of the plumbing so what it reads is what fueling should be rated by, correct?

I remember why I like things with fuel enrichment valves and ALDA's and no computer's in lieu of manual linkages and vacuum diaphragms and such. When something broke, you could point at it and say "yup, see that? It's broke!"

I can't even get the dealership to provide me with the operational ranges for the map sensor. They have no diagnostic anymore, it's change parts until problem stops, and then bend customer over counter and CHARGE!!!

unplug the MAP sensor and take it for a spin

Gonna have to try that and post results.

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Just out of curiosity, am I running it with the map sensor unplugged just to see if the condition is unchanged (meaning a map sensor failure) or to see if the turbo or fueling reacts differently (which I am assuming it would have to without the input of the map sensor to the computer). Or is this to make the computer relearn/refresh after plugging the map sensor back in after clearing the inevitable CEL? Or will you answer "yes" to all? lol

most of the time a cel light is set when your map sensor is bad

Ok, sorry it took so long. Things have been hectic around here. But I have finally done as you suggested and unplugged the MAP sensor and drove it for about a mile. As expected, the CEL lit up, and the truck was in super limp mode. Got to the end of the road, a shut it down, re-plugged the MAP sensor...

Holy freakin cow man! This truck has retard strength again! I cleared all the codes after writing them down and drove to town. AMAZING difference. I'm guessing that the truck had to re-learn the sensor, or had to be slapped in the face and told to pay attention to it.

Boost isn't 100% as it was before this ordeal started, so I'll have to dig into that some more but it's way better than it was. EGT's have dropped, and that's a good thing. I'll drive it around some more, and see if it begins to degrade back into wimp mode.

:c:

You might want to clean your IAT and MAP sensors. Also, early 05's had plastic tank intercoolers on them and they are known to crack and leak so I would also check that unless you have an 05.5 with the all aluminum intercooler.

I've recently pulled my map sensor (which is also my iat, I think) and it looks like brand new.

I do have the plastic tanks on my intercooler (built 07 of 2004). I am going to try to find time to pull the intercooler and test it for leaks. I guess I could do the same with it as I do with radiators, cut an inner tube, clamp it to the input/output flanges, and submerge it in a tub of water and pressurize it. Is there a better way? Anything in particular that I need to watch for while pulling it out of the truck? Tips/tricks?

The ducting for the intercooler is an upgrade kit, complete with T-bar style clamps. I tried testing for leaks on the truck, just not real confident that it was a successful test.

For reference, the IAT (intake air temp) sensor is located on the cold air intake tube where your air filter is. The MAP sensor is on the intake manifold plane up near the rail pressure sensor. I have included a picture of it circled in red.

You can pressurize the intercooler in the truck if you like. Just plug one end and then clamp a 3" PVC nipple to the other end with a schrader valve in it and put about 10-15 PSI in it. Then, get a spray bottle with some Dawn or the like and water mixture and spray away. If you want to take it out, which would be a better and more thorough test, then the only trick is when you take the condensing unit loose all you have to do is rotate is about 180 degrees while moving it up out of the way towards the passenger side of the truck and over the front of the cowel. This way you don't have to discharge the A/C system and it leaves everything in tact. Just zipt tie it up out of the way. There are rubber bushings on the two upper keepers that you have to make sure and get lined up properly upon reinstallation but it is very straight forward. Good luck.
Attachment 54388

It's been a couple days now, and still running strong. I does sound like I'm dumping boost though, and my numbers are still low. Gonna try capping the plumbing at the intake horn and see if I can pressurize the intercooler and ducting, try to narrow this down some more. Hopefully it will be a simple leak and not the wastegate messing up.

Finally figured it out, not happy about what I found, but glad the problem was isolated.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...junkie/IC1.jpg
Blew the end cap right off.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...junkie/IC2.jpg
Now to try to see if I can make it go back together :argh:

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Freakin' perfect. I'm missing about a 3" section of the rubber gasket that seals the tank. I have to assume it went into the engine at some point, so I can only hope that it got consumed and isn't still in there somewhere. Getting that tank off was a pita all by it's self, but with a wood chisel and a 8mm wrench (as a pry bar) I was able to ease all the little tabs back to release the tank. Maybe I got lucky and the piece of gasket was blown OUT of the intercooler.

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Well, I pulled a Pheonix project fix on it (richard dean anderson would be proud).

I pulled the plastic end cap off, carefully pried all the little tabs out until the cap would set back on without obstruction, and proceeded to silicone the crapola out of it. I honestly didn't have any faith in this temporary fix, but after some cure time and the reinstall, I took it for a test drive. I made it to the end of the road, and pulling out from the stop sign I got up to about 11psi and POW! I figured it was catastrophic failure of the patch, but it turned out to be the boot blown off the intake horn. So I re-seated it, ran over all the clamps again to ensure they were tight, and down the road again I topped at 22psi (not wanting to push it too hard and press my luck). That's good enough for me for now, I just hope it holds until I can find a replacement IC. Gotta source an all-metal tank. The plastic end cap design is crap.

Long story short, my PO299 = busted intercooler = boost dump.

Anybody got a good IC laying around for cheap?

It sounds like the map sensor. If u unpluged it and pluged it back in and it started working better i would probley start there. There pretty cheep and easy to replace

The only time I got that dang underboost code was when I had my bd super b single. It always threw that code. But not the first time in months since putting the stocker back on. I was thinking about trying a new map sensor but just not sure about it.

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Oh vwdieseljunkie, you prob know, but if u got a boost fooler the outlooks boost reads way low. Just making sure u knew.

For reference, the MAP\IAT is a dual sensor located on the intake manifold. The Inlet Air Temp is the ambient temp sensor and barometric pressure sensor located on the air box horn.

vwdieseljunkie,
Not sure it would work or not but while you wait for a new IC you might be able to make a clamp across the width of the blown out/repaired one to help hold it together.
It looks like you could take some flat stock aluminum or similar material across the ends of the tanks and use 1/4-20 threaded rod across the width in 2 or 3 spots and sandwich the old IC pulling the tanks together.
If that makes sense it may help keep it together until you get a replacement. :humm:
may not be room between to fit it though; just a thought....

I do have a all stock full steel IC that i will sell u if u want it Pm me.

Well, I must admit that I didn't think the patch job would last this long, but it has. Made it over to Baton Rouge, and while I was there I picked up a stock intercooler from the stealership. I refuse to drop $1500~$2500 on an aftermarket intercooler. C'mon, have they lost their minds? These things should be priced only a little bit more than a radiator. What a racket! Even the all-metal stocker from the stealership was $800.

I'll get the new cooler slid in there today, and store my plastic one for an emergency spare. Guess while I'm at it I'll get the 35's put back on too, tired of looking like a roller skate or a railroad service truck with the stockers under a 5" lift.

I've driven the truck so long with the busted cooler that I forgot how much power this monster really had. Wow.

Wow $800 for a stock replacement that's crazy....
Glad your back in business.

sorry for chiming in late on this but wow plastic endtanks :humm: my 04 came with all metal and is welded all the way around so did my 07 wounder why

It beats the crap outta me, I don't even like plastic tanks on my radiators. Trying to cut corners and cut costs at our expense, I'm sure. Just like the GM gassers getting plastic intake manifolds and fuel injectors. I wouldn't doubt they would have plastic turbos if they could.

Personally, the way I look at it, this should have been a major warranty issue. If the turbo could not pressurize the intercooler enough to make up for the breach, then the intake could have been breathing un-filtered air. That could cut a huge chunk out of the engine's life span if it was sucking airborne debris in. But, even if that did happen, it wouldn't be the crappy, exploded intercooler's fault, it would be because of my AFE stg II, I have no doubt.

:ph: stupid factory and your so right they would of blamed it in something. as far as the unfiltered air i wouldnt worry bout it i talked to a former cummins r&d guy he said dont worry cause the boost was forcing out thus the only time for dirt to get in would be when engine was off. good luck with the new cooler

I was more worried about running at idle. Even though the turbo is moving air at idle, the size of the gap between the cap and the core would have been sufficient enough that still makes me worry. It's about time for an oil change anyways, and I'll see what it looks like and capture what's in the filter to see if anything substantial shows up.

I don't have the new IC installed yet, it's still in the box on the back seat. I meant to deal with that yesterday but got tied up trying to get my rear stock wheels off so I could re-mount my 35's. The hub-centric stockers did NOT want to give up the death hold they had on the hub. My fault because they were tight going on. It only takes a small amount of rust scale and dirt to make them stick.

The new IC is the welded unit. The replacement part numbers for the intercooler has changed several times in the last few years evidently, and you are not supposed to be able to buy a plastic one anymore. They have been super ceded and phased out. Talk about a pissed customer if this happened to them, and the stealership reinstalled another plastic IC and it happened again! I'd like to be a fly on the wall at that shop!:pca1:

:w2: yah would be great to the shops reaction. hey i had the same problem with my wheels sticking try some graphite grease on the hub and studs it worked for me ive had to use a porta power and a 20lb sledge hammer on my wheels:ouch: really sucks when your on the side of the highway with a trailer on :argh:

Wow i frequent the cumminsforum but had no luck with my problem. This sounds just like my 05'. Will only build 20 psi. felt alot stronger when i first got it. Used to be able to roast my 35's. I will have to check my intercooler. i am alos getitng really high egt's.

Would you believe my silly-cone patch on the plastic IC tank is still holding?!? The all-metal IC is in my store-room, humidity has made the cardboard box fall apart, and I'm STILL driving around on my patched up plastic IC. Unfreakingbelievable.

Since this thread got dredged up I may as well respond. Actually, the intake senor in the intake manifold on the MAP sensor is used for reading air temp for correction purposes on the baro of the MAP. I had no idea however that the intake temp sensor on the CAI tube was also reading baro. I guess I'll have to check into that one. Do you have any technical data you can post? Thanks.