5.9L Crank and Cam Trigger Wheels
 

Hello,

I'm using a 2004 ECM and 2004 wiring harness for the 5.9L Cummins on a different engine. I'm trying to figure out the timing aspects. The crank position sensor will tell the ECM where TDC is, but how does the ECM know if that TDC is on the compression, or exhaust stroke? I would assume the cam position sensor tells the ECM what stroke it is on??? I know that the crank trigger wheel is a 60-2 tooth wheel. Can anyone tell me where the tooth gap corresponds to TDC on cylinder 1? I found somewhere on the 2002 Cummins, the gap is 60 degrees bTDC. Would this be the same for 2004? I also need to know if the cam uses a separate trigger wheel, and if so, how many teeth it has, and where the gap occurs in relation to TDC. If the cam sensor doesn't read a trigger wheel, what does it read? Is the cam sensor necessary for the engine operation, or would there be a way to "fool" the ECM into thinking it has a functioning cps? I would like to not use the cam position sensor because it is not practical to mount, along with a trigger wheel, on my engine.

Thanks for the help!
Ross

Yes it will have to have a cps and the ring is located on the back of the cam gear. It also has to be timed with the crank. If its out of time it will throw a code and go into a limp mode. If its not there it wont run.

Tell us more about what your trying to do.

Sent with a Droid RAZR in one hand and 14,000 volts in the other.

I am putting a common rail fuel injection system onto a .9L 3cyl. Kubota engine. I'm using a 2004 ECM to manage everything from the pump to the injectors and the timing aspects. I'm using the pump, injectors, rail, and sensors from the 5.9 Cummins engine. Everything is good to go except for the timing. I have the crank trigger wheel, I just need to know where to place the gap in relation to the pick up sensor, and the TDC location of the crank...possibly 60 degrees bTDC?? Since the cam sensor is necessary, does it read a hole in the back of the cam gear, or is there something else the hall sensor picks up?

the ring on the back of the cam gear is similar to the one on the crank. i'm not sure about the BTDC degree for the crank ring. i do have a question tho. how do you plan to get the 6 cylinder ecm to function with the 3 cylinder engine without some type of software like efi live to allow you to turn off things in the ecm that will cause it to go into limp mode? because with 3 of the injectors unplugged the ecm is going to throw a fit.

I actually have a modified ECM that is very similar to the OEM Cummins one. I also know an electronics guru who can trick the ECM into thinking everything is functioning as it should. We'll probably end up cranking the engine over (with the injectors wires off so it won't start) and then determine where the timing wheel needs to be set for proper operation?

Does the cam sensor read a trigger wheel like the crank sensor? I have read that it is maybe just a hole in the cam gear that the sensor picks up?

for the electronics that your using it is actually a wheel just like the crank wheel not just a hole. so your not using the Cummins ecm just the wiring?

I am using an ECM from Destroked. They specialize in putting Cummins engines into Ford chassis. It is a direct replacement for the stock unit, however, it gives the end user total control of the injection parameters. Do you have any idea how many teeth are on the cam wheel, or if you can buy one separate from the cam?

so your using a ZEUS ecm that makes more sense. i have an extra gear here but i have to keep it for a core. i do know that the ring does come off of the gear but would have to call cummins to see if they sell it alone or just with the gear. i do not know the numer of teeth on it but i can take a pic of it for you if you would like.

Yes, the Zues ECM...not sure if it absolutely needs the cam sensor not. I read that the cam sensor is only used on start up, then the crank sensor is used during normal operation. That would be awesome if you could get a picture. I can probably have a wheel laser cut with the correct amount of teeth.

yeah i can get you a pic, probably be monday tho i will also look for a part number on it