new to 5.9 cummins and want to beef it up , newbie here.
 

Good day fellas. soon to be the big day. dropping a 98.5 5.9 cummins 24V in my chevy 97 k style. i do not have block number 53" so thank god. now i know about the vp44 pumps how you cant let them starve for fuel. im use to the old 6.5 detroit diesels. i wanna beef up the cummins and get roughly 350- 400hp whp. now it is a 5 speed.

for the lift pump , whats the average fuel presure should the vp44 get at wot. im looking to buy a carter 150gpm fuel pump at 16 psi. cant afford them high priced airdogs. wouuld that do ? i will have fuel presure gauge.


for injectors. now do injectors make that much of a diff? what is it just bigger nozzle tips? cause if so i can buy nozzle tips "200hp" and swap out my stock nozzles on my current injectors. and whats the pop pressure they should be set at??

exhaust . i will have a 4" DP with 4 " straight pipe back

safe EGT's ive heard 1400*F correct?

Turbo. i have an hx40 thats gonna be installed on it. now my question is. how do i control the boost pressurre? is it the more fuel the boost will climb automaticly?( with a chip ) ?

whats max boost i should be seeing on a stock cummins. no ARP studs****

Now for chips. i hear people comboing chips togethor?:humm: like a smarty with an edge:humm: how is that possible and why ? dont you use only one ?:s:

AGain im NEW to cummins and i want to learn like everyone else. so taker easy on me, i do understand when talking motors , i am an auto mechanic. now please bare with me and help me tune up my cummins :)

Thanks guys :) if theres anything else i should know please add onnn !

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Carter P4601HP Carter Competition Series Electric Fuel Pumps

fuel pump im looking at^^^^
:jump:

At WOT you need to stay above 10 psi, it is better to stay around 14 psi if possible.

Without studs you don't want to go over 50lbs of boost. **Just a general rule of thumb. Even though the head can lift at mid boost numbers with low rpms (High Cylinder Pressure).

I don't know much about the carter pumps other than the stock ones on these trucks are junk and carter is the maker of them.

The more fuel you add the more boost you will create.

Stacking modules/programmers is a semi common thing you have to get a pressure box and a timing box to make them work with out damaging the pickup.

You really need to get a FP, boost, tranny temp (auto), and a Pyrometer gauge along with a good solid LP. You can always do the Raptor lift pump from AirDog and use the stock filter or remote mount some filters.

i already have all guages to do running the shitty 6.5 td. i had bought an hx 40 for the 6.5 and it maxed out at 20psi boost:jump:. and okay i was thinking around 35-38 lbs should do me good. and yea the raptor ones i was thinking about as well. is there a problem runnin the stock filter setup on these?

i have no idea what ur trying to explain with stacking moduals and something with a pressure box, if you care to explain a lil more on what i have to do to do this ? unless i just get edge ez program and modual and stick to that. i want the programer with most benefit if im going to spend the money...

With the HX40 you will see about 30-35lbs of boost, more with injectors.

Not really a problem running the stock filter, it just doesn't filter down to 3 micron like aftermarket filters do. At least I haven't seen any that do.

Since you already have gauges just get an Edge Comp. It will give you plenty of power.

FYI

Module is a device that intercepts the signals going from the engine to the ECM and gives different signals that increase fuel, boost and other parameters to increase performance. (i.e. Edge Comp)

Programmer is a device that actually rewrites the ECM program to increase performance.(i.e. Smarty)

okay thanks alot!:) again what would be the point to have a smarty and and edge combo togethor? im looking for roughly 450hp MAX and 350Hp min. where do i start? thanks

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also ive notice ( the tranny 5 speed) tht going into the chevy with the cummmins , nv4500, wont shift into 5th unless i turn off the truck shift to 5th and turn it back on.. again with i was testing the tranny there was no drive shaft and low on fluid, would that be the issue , can it be that the syncros are going on it ?:dang:

Running the combo can give you a more responsive fuel curve. Good low end power and top end power. However, I have read when stacking people have actually lost overall hp.

It could be that the 5th gear nut has loosened up and is causing problems with shifting. It could also be syncros. You can always pull the tail end of the tranny housing off and take a look and see.

^omg yes . I hope its this . Rather then a new tranny ... You guys been a very big help thanks:) so for injectors should i get 200 or 150 with my hx 40 and 4 inch dp . Smarty or edge . If edge which model is the best?

I doubt it just that easy as the fifth gear nut backing off. usually when that happens you just loose fifth all together, but you can still shift into fifth. Reason all gears are always meshed together, and the syncros, and syncro dogs are what put the transmission into the selected gear. The NV4500 can be finicky if they are worn, They need to be shimmed to a tight tolerance, I have had a few of them apart, and rebuild them. At the end of the video, that big shifter fork. That is where fifth gear is shifted. most likely, there is some play in that bottom shaft, causing the shifting fork to bind up, and causing it not to slide into gear easily.
Parts aren't real expensive for those transmissions. But there are some speciality tools really needed to properly rebuild one. If you have patients and the talent to turn wrenches correctly then you could do the trans rebuild easily. Anaheim gear is a good source for parts. thats my .o2 worth. Good luck

Okay thanks alot for everyones opinion! I still havent got the chance to check the nut first . Again thats the simple start and if it isent that ill take ur advice and go to the next step. But i Bet the fluid level wouldnt matter cause its a mechanic shift by a humain. Anymore opinons on anything else i should do would be great just overal engine wprk and such! Im still learning cummins!:)

with the smarty your only going to gain about 60~ hp on any setting. the difference in the 9 power levels is at what range it will give said power. some are for higher RPM power, some tunes for very low RPM power. any programmer that doesn't tap the injection pump wire will not supply any more than 60 hp. with an edge comp box you can tap the injection pump wire and get more horsepower. it all depends what you are wanting to do. most people either run smarty, edge comp/jwa, or an edge ez

Wanting to do? I wanna acheive roughly 450hp, now whats the diff betweeen edge comp and edge ez? Like ill mostly like to drag the truck . I rarely tow. But when i do it would be nice to get the option "tow". Now running my hx 40 . Injector 150 or 175hp? And whats this injectors on ebay for 150hp for 450$ (6) ... Is there such thing as a china injector knock off garbage or they all work the same?

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My stock injectors... What are they good for?

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Is it possible to get 150 hp nozzles and get them installed on my stock injectors?

the difference between the edge comp and the edge EZ is the power gains. the edge ez doesn't have the option to tap the injection pump wire, so itll only add about 60 hp at max. also it is about half the price of the edge comp. around $250~ i believe. the edge comp will allow more options to be chosen, and taps the injection pump wire, so you can gain more horsepower from it (not sure on the numbers).

i had an edge comp on mine, butended up selling it and buying the smarty s03 for the simple fact that i felt more comfortable with less horsepower available to keep the truck reliable. i also liked the tire height speedometer correction abilities and the DTC reader. the smarty has 9 available programs ranging from half power, mileage, etc. the comp could be dialed in more due to the fact that you have 5 power ranges, but 5 sub-settings within each of those 5. kind of hard to explain, try to find your choices on the internet and read a little more about them before purchasing.

dont skimp on injectors, this is just my opinion, but i would NOT buy injectors off of ebay. never in a million years..

^ thanks :) so techanicly the edge comp is the best for acheiving power points . Does it also have the fuel eco mode? Im pretty much sold on the edge conp... And also ive bought injectors on ebay for my 6.5 paid 250$ ish they were tested and worked great! They were no boshe.... If anyone has opinions on with injector rating i should get for my setup please chip in thanks :) and or some where for a good price on them too

An edge ez is a little module that will gain you roughly 60-65 hp tops. The comp is an all out power adder, I believe it can add up 150 hp. I have the comp on mine, I don't go past level 2. reason my auto trans wouldn't last long anymore than that.

Example :

(6) 24V 150HP Cummins Injector Nozzles 1998-2002 Dodge Ram 5.9 24 valve Diesel | eBay

If they say they are boash and noted then why wouldnt i buy them other ten that it would be false advertising and id get my money back.... Anyone buy somethin like this ? What would be the con of this?

i prefer bosch remans for peace of mind :tu:

but yes, the edge comp is a lot more power. definitely going to be looking towards a clutch upgrade once you add the comp and some bigger injectors. i could slip the clutch very easily with the comp..

the edge comp doesnt necessarily have a "mileage" tune, but lots of guys run them on level 5 with a level 5 responsiveness (also heard of as 5x5). everyone claims the 5x5 is the best for fuel mileage BUT you must keep your foot out of it. drive it like a grandpa (very hard to do once you feel the power) :w2:

heres the power levels
Level 1: 40 Horsepower - 150 Foot Pounds of Torque
Level 2: 60 Horsepower - 200 Foot Pounds of Torque
Level 3: 80 Horsepower - 250 Foot Pounds of Torque
Level 4: 100 Horsepower - 300 Foot Pounds of Torque
Level 5: 120 Horsepower - 350 Foot Pounds of Torque

after choosing a power level you choose a responsiveness (low boost fooling) level.
number 1 being least responsive, 5 being most reponsive.

heres an installation guide and you can read more into detail on how to use the box and choose which level and sub-level best suites you

http://www.edgeproducts.com/product_...manual-211.pdf

you will need adobe reader to read it, or some form of PDF reader program installed on your computer

:yeah:

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they have 100% feedback and look like a good seller, so i wouldnt be too concerned with it. you have a 14 day money back guaruntee

the only hassle i could see is if something goes wrong, you have to mess around with shipping which drives me insane :s:

Yes^ thats what im getting at ... Again that a pretty good price . Now whats a better option ? 150hp or 200hp injectors?

no clue bud, my truck has stock injectors :td:

someone else will chime in here sooner or later, join some other forums too to get a wider range of opinions and answers

im on here, Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum, and Competition Diesel Forums

tons of good people on all 3 of these :c:

Okay thanks man . Can i still make 400hp keeping my stock injectors? My cummins motor has roughly 400,000 miles on her . Any other mainetenance she should get before i juice it ?

before doing anything get a good aftermarket lift pump like an airdog, fass, raptor and also a fuel pressure gauge, pyrometer gauge, and boost gauge. and if your going to use an automatic a tranny temp gauge and save the money for a rebuild soon..

if going with a standard, give southbend or valair a call and tell them exactly what your plans are with the truck as in racing, daily driving, towing, a mixture of all, etc. they will hook you up with a strong clutch to hold up well to your power level.

i have no clue what kind of HP you can make on stock injectors. i just know that pretty much the route people follow is:

1. lift pump
2. gauges
3. programmer
4. clutch/built auto
5. injectors
6. turbo
...etc, the list goes on, but thats pretty much what i have gathered as the best order to do things. :tu:

Ill be ordering my fuel pressure guage and either that carter pump or the raptor pump . What ever crosses my budget

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Im gonna see where my current clutch takes me , its seems to be new enough.. I wont be doing a chip or injectors for a few months to budget up my cash :p

nothing over 45psi on stock head bolts and gasket

Really ^ okay thanks alot :) still waiting on other opinion on what injectors to get . 200 or 150? And wat others think about ebay injectors , the link i have posted above:pca1:

as far as ebay injectors, that all depends on the person/company selling them. the link above that you posted seems to be a pretty reputable company with a 100% feedbad and high ranking. i say go for it

Yea but 200hp too much fuel or 150?

i dont know much about injectors and different sizes. too poor to afford any anyways, sorry bud cant answer that question, but im sure someone on here will!

there seems to not be a ton of people on here anymore, try to join cumminsforum also and get some more answers quicker! :tu:

Okay will do . Ill ask on there once i got the time to do so:)

Is this your first build? And why go whole hog on pump and injectors first? Many other mods needed to make that extra fuel work.

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Did u read the title ? Of course its my first build or i wouldnt be asking these opinion. Please chime in your opinions then sir. What needs to be done?

i would add a BHAF to your list, very cheap mod and way better airflow than the stock box.

just visit your local parts store and get one of these

http://articles.mopar1973man.com/ind...=24&Itemid=107

not sure on the duralite part number, although thats the one on my truck :argh:

here is other #'s for it. very cheap mod and helpful! 3-4x more airflow than the crappy stock box, and easy to make, also you should fab up a heat shield for it if you can


Fleetguard AH19037
NAPA 2790
WIX 42790
Donaldson B105006
CAT 3I0005

also if your going to be stacking a timing box in the future, maybe a turbo upgrade would be in order. especially with large injectors

^^^ i said i had k&n ( big 4" inlet ones) and an hx 40 turbo.. Lol im ahead herre

did not notice that :c:

I got a brief question. Now my hx40 turbo has a 3" exhaust port . But how will the 4" down pipe fit?

OK, couple of questions...

Have you advanced timing?
Dealt with governor limits?
Why are you running an oiled filter on a turbo diesel?
What exhaust?
Getting those things in order first will net you 400 HP without big x huge injectors.

Next step would probably be a set of 125 level injectors and make sure you have the air flow to clean them up.

After that, you are looking at a lot of hard parts... Valve springs, studs, balancer, FOR CERTAIN a triple-disk clutch and you will probably dynomite your stock transmission soon.

Power and play comes at a cost.

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Have you advanced timing?vp 44 needs advance timming?
Dealt with governor limits? Does a smarty and edge deal with this as well as advance timming?
Why are you running an oiled filter on a turbo diesel? Keeps the turbo oiled id say;) haha jk no im
Running it cause i want to . Dosemt rob that much hp .
What exhaust? 4" straight back

I dont have an auto so ill burn the clutch worse comes to worse.. I wanma get used to standard vefore i throw in a new clutch, and u think 150 injectors is toomuch . I kinda liked the idea of 150 injectors.

Sort of sounds like you have it all figured out.

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^ just getting opinions . Wouldnt want a blown cmins now. You guys been rumning them for a while and im just getting into them now . Opinions and suggestions are nice to have . :c:

how can i determine what kind of clutch i currently have in my nv4500? i have it all apart and i just bought the truck and wanting to make sure it can handle 500hp. it has green springs , looks like a valair single clutch 500hp rating one.
it there a part number i can find on it ?

Why buy on ebay? our nozzles are less expensive and flow matched within 1%. We also have a slight extrude hone to help them flow better and cleaner.