01 HO Knock with video any ideas ?
 

Background its a 2001 HO QCSB 4x4 6 speed bone stock with 220k miles.

So when i bought the truck last week i never really noticed this engine knock on start up. After i bought it the guy said by the way if you notice a knock its fuel knock on start up. He gave me a receipt from the dodge dealer from 2010 where they tried to diagnose it. He says they told him it was something in the ecm programming. In 2010 (60k miles ago) it had a new rebuilt pump and new stock injectors. It sounded like he wasn't fully confident on the IP install he did so he had it checked out and thats what they told him.

I thought the knock started after the new pump, but talked to him today and said no it always did it. Now i'm wondering if its not coming from the engine itself. Its definitely worse until its up to temp at 190F. Truck was a roll over in 2007 and wrote off. I wonder if something starved for oil ?

The knock is worse the first few seconds its fired up. Some of the lines are a bit wet at the injector.

If it was wrist pin/scored piston/bearing shouldnt the knock get worse with rpm ?

I noticed when you hog on it a little you don't hear it. When putting around when the revs drop to the 1000-1300 range you can hear it tap. Seems more pronounced with no load. Checked the oil no diesel fuel smell to it.
Oil pressure on the stock gauge seems ok. When warm at idle its a little under 40 or straight up. On the road hot its up around ~60.

Thoughts ?

Here is the video

Thanks

i couldnt really hear it till you shut it off. could be fuel knock. shoot your exhaust manifold at each cylinder with a temp gun and see how evenly they heat up. also are you getting any white smoke.

Nope no smoke and it does not seem to miss. No hard starting. Seems worse untill engine is warmed up to 190F.
Never thought of the temp gun thanks.

Sounds like an injector going south to me bro.

I'm hoping it is a fuel knock.

New VP and factory injectors were installed in 2010. They both have 60k miles on them. I got the receipts from him

I'm going to take the temp gun to it.

Did anyone notice the clatter when it shut off ? I noticed it only makes this "klank" on shutdown when its cold. When it first fires you can hear it knock real good 4-5 times.

In the video it was the 1st start of the day and only ran ~2 minutes.

id say fuel knock i work at a ford dealer ship and hear alot of this with a bad or couple bad injectors alot on the 6.0s

Thanks for all the input gentleman. I will report back with the temp light readings.:c:

but idk with you saying no smoke, injectors out or staying open youd probably see some smoke

It's hard to tell. It almost sounds like it could be a knock. You could use a stethoscope and listen to different parts of the engine especially down towards the bottom of the block. Sometimes you can do the same thing with a long screw driver and put your ear on the handle but it's harder to tell that way.

The noise is definately worse untill the engine gets up to 190F on the stock gauge. So signs of smoke. Fuel knock does not change with engine temp though right ?

Got the infared gun but the batteries were dead, so on cold start i put my hand on the namifold at each cylinder for about 45 seconds going between them all. Appeared like the front and rear holes were slightly colder. Picking up some batteries today to do it with the gun.

I doubt its a bearing as the oil pressure is always up there. Maybe scored piston/wrist pin and with heat it expands a bit so tightens things up ?

Odd if its not fuel though that its been doing this for 60k miles and for over 2 years. Would have thought it would have blown up by now.

Im going to say its a piston slapping a cylinder. Most probably #6. Compression test would show. Enough fuel into the cylinder to cause a knock would produce grey smoke and an incomplete combustion smell. We rebuilt the engine in a truck that had the same problem and it was drove for a year with that problem.

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If its just 1 hole what do you do ?

Can you buy a single std HO piston and sleeve and have a machine shop install the new cylinder liner ?

If its piston slap I'd assume the cylinder wall must be toast ?

What is the cause of a scored piston in these I6's ? run low on oil ?

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One other question on the truck with the burnt piston did it have a lot of blow bye ?
When i take the breather cap off while running it won't move the fill cap when flipped upside down. The blow by tube isn't puffing either. I also pulled the oil dipstick while it was idling and didn't even see smoke come out.

No the truck didnt have a noticeable amount of blowby. None of the ones with that problem have had alot. It is possible to just sleeve one cylinder and deglaze the others. Then put one new piston and rering the others.

The most common cause of this damage is the #6 piston cooling nozzle clogging and letting the piston get too hot and grow too much and make contact with the cylinder.

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Thanks for the info. I will see if i can narrow it down to which cylinder it is. I have a harbor freight cheapo compression test kit i used on my TDI volkswagen. There are a few different connectors not sure if there is one big enough for a cummins in the kit.

Lets say it is a bad piston cracking an injector line should not change the knock right ? it would only quiet it down it it was a fuel knock correct ?

Also the engine needs to be lifted up to get the pan off correct ?

when is that last time you've had your valves adjusted?

I just got the truck last week. The seller said they were done, but no specific mileage was mentioned. Listening to the tail pipe at idle there is no sounds of a loose/hanging valve though. Truck runs good pulls almost as much as my old 12v 5 speed that had the stock plate full forward, afc advanced and star wheel cranked some. Only time i have seen any smoke out of it was flooring it at 2000rpm in 4th.

correct the knock will still be there with a line cracked it might not be as loud but it will still be there. the harbor freight kit will work you will just have to grind down the one that is the correct thred because the body of the adapter will not fit in the injector bore but it dosnt take much grinding to get it to fit. cummins spec is min 350psi a good cylinder will be in the 450-500psi range a galded piston will be in the 250 range. yes taking the engine mounts loose makes getting the pan off alot easier but you probably wouldnt be able to see anything from down there unless it is a spun rod bearing. if you get a low compression reading in any of the cylinders then the head will have to come off.

All this makes me want to drop in a 12v. Run a manual cable for fuel shut, a switch for the grids,external voltage regulato and put my 6 speed flywheel/clutch on and go. . Wonder if my A/c would still work along with the rest of the wiring on my 01.

Around here 12V engines are more plentiful and cheaper. If its a 53 block in my 01 noway i'm going threw the hassle of machine work ect. Are all 24v engines compatible in my 2001 ? Ie all the same sensor locations on all 98.5-02 engines.

Hell, that'll work:tu:

I don't want to jump to conclusions before i get a compression test, but i think all signs point to a internal knock.

If it is internal damage and its a 53 block, i'm not gonna chance going threw a rebuild to potentially have the block crack at a later date. Engine swap required and noway i'm dropping $5k plus for a remaned longblock. Leaves me with the options of buying another used 24valve engine. I'm not even sure all the sensors are in the same spot on all 24v's, so thats a crap shoot and who knows how long before the VP lets go. I read on another forum a guy has a dead engine computer and prices were $1000-1900 for a new one plus reflashing.!!!!!

12v swap is looking sweeter all the time.

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Ok i drove it to work today and when i got home i opened the hood and noticed the injector on the front cylinder is the only one that was moist. The more i listened to it the more it sounds like its the front cylinder. I listened underneath back by the flywheel and by the front tire. Noise really sounds more like from the top.

So i cracked the front injector open. It quieted down the motor some. (Mind you at full temp you don't really hear but a faint knock) BUT when i tightened the injector back up there was about 3 distinct knocks then went away. Tried this a few times and everytime the injector starts to tighten up 3-4 knocks. Like a high pitched tink tink tink. Tried a couple other injectors and none of them did this.

Hmm

Also for testing the compression is there a fuse or something i can pull so it cuts the fuel ? You usually pull out all the injectors first right ?

i have seen two engines with damage at the #1 cylinder it get less air then the others just like #6 does but it gets more then #6 so it dosnt get as hot. try this before you do the compression test. try swapping the #1 injector to #3 and see if that causes #3 to knock instead. that will tell you if its a fuel knock or if it is cylinder related. to do the compression test unplug the lift pump and the injection pump that will keep it from sending fuel to the lines while the injectors are out.

I'll get some copper washers and tube orings this week and give it a try.

Cummins are a parobore engine they are not sleeved, but you could sleeve them but I wouldent recommend it untill you have reacheced the max bore out which is .60 over. If you had to replace a piston you can assess and see have bad it has wore the cylinder if you cant feel it with your fingernail you can deglaze it and then rehone and crosshatch...

Can you overbore say .020 on just the one hole and hone/ re-ring the other 5 ?

Im still thinking fuel knock. Start it up snd crack the injector lines one at a time. Start at #1 and if rhe knock does not go away tighten it back up and try the next. Adjusting your valves could definately help alsoo

You can but not recommended because the rest of the cylinders will be unbalanced. Do what cummins kid said also! crack the injection lines one at a time and see if anything changes...

I did that the other day see the end of post #20.

Cracking #1 quieted it down some and as soon as you started to tighten that one I got 3 loud knocks then went back to the faint knock. I tried a couple other cylinders and it killed the motor some, but when i tightened the lline no knock.

That #1 when tightening it though 3 good knocks TICK TICK TICK then settles out. I will pull #1 injector and test the compression. If the compression is good i'll pull the rest and have them all pop tested.

Got to order the copper washers and o ring's for the tubes 1st.

Oh sweet! so some progress has been made hope its just a fuel knock..

You can pull the fuel relay that should keep the Vp44 from shooting fuel..

i wanna know where you get a .60 over piston?? we sleeve single cylinders in them all the time there is no reason not to. the sleeved cylinder is stronger then the stock cylinders.

napa, thurobred diesel. Im not saying sleeves are bad, but its "one more thing to go wrong" water leaks. .60 overs can be bought, I have a set sitting inside a 4BT cummins at the moment... its a to each his own.

Ya got that 4bt in something or current/ future project?

In a Case 580K backhoe.. But I lied your are correct I looked at the reciept its .40 over, there and went back and its purediesel not thurobred and their kit is .40 max sorry I spoke before I had the facts :argh: But agreeing with you and sleeving and engine, but I do have questions about doing it to a parabore thats where I get worried, I have considerd when I rebuild my cummins just to sleeve it.. Wet or dry, but you can go dry with the 5.9L cummins its wet sleeving that scares me..

water leaks from a dry sleeve?

No water leaks from a wet sleeve I did not specifiy.. please excuse my horrible puncuation..

Ok but how do wet sleeves apply to a B series block? Sorry i just do not understand why you advise not to sleeve one.

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Ok to start fresh, when he said sleeve I was not thinking dry sleeve for what ever reason I had at the time, so yes he can dry sleeve and leave the rest of the cylinders my mistake, and misunderstanding...

10-4 makes sense now

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Have not had a chance to check the compression on it yet. Towed 10k on a tag along a week ago pulling some serious grades and she pulled like a champ.