is there a LOCK UP torque converter for these trucks?
 

Hey guys, wondering if anyone can give me some info about torque converters for these 1st gens. i have an A518 in mine. i looked into BD but it turns out their converter is also a non lock up like the stock.

i am not a fan of the non lockup at all and wondering if there is someone who makes a lockup converter?

cheers,

Graeme

The A518 (AKA: 46RH) in our trucks uses a NON lock-up torque converter. You can't simply replace one converter with the other.

While the A518 can be converted to a lock-up type converter by way of notable internal hardware and hydraulic (Valve-body) changes, it's usually much more cost effective to switch to a later 47RH trans which by default runs the lock-up converter.

Either way, you'll need the 47RH type engine to trans adapter-plate so as to allow more room for the thicker lock-up converter.

Others with first-hand experience with the details of either conversion will most likely post soon.

Have fun. :pca1:

oh okay. i've only ever had 2nd gens and coming into this non lock up thing has been weird.

so maybe i dont want to replace the tranny, but is something like a BD converter going to be alot better then the stock?

Much better.... Much much better...

i think i'm not too far away from a tighter convertor, i dont think i can justify a 47rh swap. contemplated the lock up swap in mine myself. good luck :c:

I used to feel good about the trans I have in my '91 flatbed, it seemed tight and shifted firm, both things you want.
It even got 17-18 mpg.
Then I hooked it to a 2-car trailer and towed with it, got 9 mpg and it "slipped" like crazy.
I'm a manual trans guy, I wonder why in heck anyone that tows would put up with horrible mileage and a tranny that slips like that. :nope:

Totally worthless.:td:

Mark.

As far as I can tell and have read the 518 case for diesels (they are differnt then the gassers) cant be converted to lock-up. Some passeges or something missing. Like I said though this is just something I read about in passing looking for somehing else.

Spec-Rite or Goerend makes a converter that will handle 500+rwhp.....and it's a non-lock-up :jump:

What would be the better/cheaper way to go transmission? Go with a BD tq converter, or the 47RH trans swap? Any advice would be great!:humm:

Guess it depends on how much you can get the 47RH for. Personally I wouldn't touch a BD TC, I'd be looking only at either Suncoast or Goerend. :tu: A TC from either of these vendors will run you from $600 - $1000, but well worth the money. A lockup convertor is somewhere around $1200 I think, (not 100% on that), plus whatever other parts you may need to rebuild it. 'Cause you know that while you're there you may as well. The other thing to remember is that when an auto is in lockup, it's going to create HUGE amounts of heat, so as Mark Nixon says, towing with it can get fun sometimes. (Which is why everyone says not to tow in OD.)

IF you want to tow a lot, run a 5 speed and deeper gears (4.10s).
The outcome for mileage (Fuel AND Longevity) and keeping the tranny together will be more favorable.
If for some reason you don't like the Getrag, go with a FULLY UPGRADED NV4500 or 6 speed.

If you do a 6 speed, you can keep the gearing higher, say 3.54s.

Mark.

My only problem with towing with a stick is uneven shifting. i.e. User error. :argh: I haul horses a lot and with livestock the smoother the shift the better. I've heard of horses breaking legs from folks not driving right, and I don't ever want that to happen to me. Especially when that horse cost 6 figures. :scare2: But otherwise, manual tranny's are better for the long haul. :tu: In saying that, auto's have their place too...

Alright guys thanks for the input.:tu: I've been looking at some other part for the A-518 and prolly just get some up grades for it such as TQ converter, clutches, and shift kit. I'm not looking to put down 500HP but it would be nice to not slip the tranny every time I hardly get on it

Lock-up does not create huge amounts of heat. It reduces heat.

Any auto, compared to a manual, creates more heat. Direct drive or not.

Lock up or not, an auto always creates more heat, it's the nature of the beast.

No stock lock-up clutch will handle the loads of 20,000+ pounds for very long.
Not to mention, that the loads on the convertor, while doing so, will make some convertors swell up and crack, which is why any good aftermarket convertor has a feature called an "Anti-Ballooning" plate.

I tow with my '91 diesel automatic truck, and I dread the day that thing finally pukes itself, but I also won't hesitate for even a second to swap it to a manual when that time comes.

Some things are just more practical and towing just seems more practical with a manual, in most situations.

Mark.

As much towing as you do a manual is the way to go!

When you want to tow stuff alot and sometimes go fast - Maunal
When you want to go fast alot and sometimes tow stuff - Auto

:U:

when the TC is locked up you shouldnt be building heat because your not slipping. why they done recomend to tow in OD is when it kicks in and out of OD you build ALOT of heat. if your trans temp is still high with a LUTC you need more cooling surface. with a non LU TC you will "slip" the trans and build ALOT of heat.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

all other things aside, what did the 47RH come in and what parts do you need for a good upgrade. i have a first gen (AH518) and a 205 cast iron t case. not sure the spline count. but i'm gonna do a lift soon, and i'll likely need different drive shaft(s). i'd love a lock up auto tranny, to get it to shift like a gasser, and in lock up OD for the RPMS to be about 1400-1600. if this isnt possible i'd like a NV5600!

Exactly.

The 48RE in my 07 runs about the same temp as the Getrag in my 1st Gen: 150-160F. They both heat up under load. The only time the 48RE heats up is when it is not locked. I towed a toy hauler with about a ton of stuff on it up the side of a mountain last summer locked in 2nd and it only got slightly warmer - 180 - that's nothing. I saw 220 on the Getrag once before I put the fastCoolers on it. I think the 'rag would have made more heat on that pull because the auto has better cooling.

words to live by :tu:

Grass is always greener on the other side of the torque converter. Lockup is cool, but, the clutches can shed material into the fluid flow and clog a journal, or jam a shift valve. That sucks expensively. Non lockups slip forever, and generate lots of heat, and will cook fluid, but can often be set right with a fluid change, assuming you do so before the ruined fluid has time to hurt a bearing or a valve. Need LOTS of cooling, and a TC with more efficient stall ratio to make it work nice AND stay nice.

Newsflash: Cheap parts and poorly maintained equipment is liable to fail in all sorts of ways.

You can't be seriously suggesting a non-lockup converter has any advantage whatsoever in a modern vehicle, can you? Especially in a diesel truck application? The early 727 and 68RH Dodge Cummins trucks were notorious for horrendous fuel mileage when towing and a strong propensity to cook the fluid doing so as you mentioned. Some of the new generation autos coming out over the past few years can lock up in every gear for the obvious benefits provided by that capability.

68RH? :nope:
NOW who's talking out their ass? :humm:
If you don't know the correct models of trannies, how can you know anything else?

Next I suppose you'll try to tell me an A 518 is really a 46RH? :pca1:

Mark.

So are you 518 guys without lockup and a good tc happy

I have an 89 with the 727 and it does good towing and gets about 20mpg consistently. However if you tow very heavy loads up steep hills the tranny gets hot VERY fast.

I have a 518 out of a 92 I rebuilt and converted to a lock-up converter to put in it in the future. The only thing to it is getting an input shaft from a lock-up trans (lock up ones are hollowed out) and a 47RH valve body. The non-lockup VB is the same, it just doesn't have the solenoid for the lock-up (That's what it looks like from the outside anyways). You'll have to get a plug from a later model truck also so you have the wires for a lockup switch.

I am.

To correct my younger, not as knowledgeable self, technically nothing is slipping, but you are "shearing" the transmission fluid. Besides the bands or clutches in the trans "slipping" while engaging or hunting from 3rd to OD the majority of your heat is created from the fluid coupling in a torque converter when unlocked. If its getting hot or shuddering while locked the lock up clutch is giving you the middle finger when you get on the go pedal. Problem with most first gens is we don't have lock up or enough ponies to junk em!:td::dang:

I guess everybody else smacked Nadir (low) Point (seems fitting, actually) for his attitude. No, I was not suggesting "advantage over". Read the first sentence in my post: "the grass is always greener....." I pointed out pros and cons. What would really be cool, and I don't know if anyone's brought it to the truck world, would be an automatically-shifted manual with a real clutch. The supercar guys like Ferrari and others have those, easily identified by the "flappy-paddle" option. Then you get the durability of a manual tranny, the convenience of an automatic, and only have to worry about loose wiring or a loose air-hose :scare2: messing up your ability to shift gears, or even disengage the clutch.

In short, perfection ain't gonna be attained in this world. Pick the imperfections that offend your the least, and then minimize'em.

And, try not to be a dick about it. :moon:

Geddys_uncle, back in the 60s-70s there was a kit for a "Clutch Flite", which is exactly what it sounds like, an automatic with a clutch.
Over the years I have seen 3 or 4 of them, they always intrigued me, but the price for such ancient pieces also scares me.
Even so, these things were put behind blown supercharged Hemis and lasted well, so it wouldn't be a stretch to see a more current and upgraded one survive behind a Cummins.

There is also no reason why this set-up wouldn't work with the current crop of automatics, given someone with the willingness to do machine work.

Mark.

Ouch. :yousuck:
Which "suggests" non-lockup had some advantage. Newsflash: it don't.
There are no "pros" to non-lockup TQ converters. That's why they have not appeared in new vehicles for at least the last 15 years. Wake up. Newer, better designs for non-lockup converters make them a far cry more "adequate" than the original/stock examples, but that's about it.
That's happening just as soon as the diesel truck buyers are ready spend supercar prices on a pickup. Like maybe... never. Ya think? But things change, we'll see. One thing that never seems to change is how people tend to cling to outdated knowledge.
People living in the past are easily identified by their flappy brains clinging to old technology.
Modern autos no longer have any "durability" issues compared to manuals. That is largely due to locking TQ converters, among other things. Again, update your knowledge or keep it to yourself, please. At least stop trying to mask your ignorance with personal attacks on me.
It's being done. Bought a new vehicle in the past ten years?
Think about that next time you decide to take a potshot at me. :c:

Non-lock-up does have is advantages, like starting a load.

As far as an earlier comment made about having "lock-up in every gear", no, that's not right, at least not with Dodge transmissions.

Even a clutch on a manual NEEDS to slip to get the (heavy) loads rolling and I know for a fact that the 68RFE and ALL of it's predecessor Dodge automatic transmissions do NOT lock up in 1st gear.
In fact even the 68RFE doesn't start locking up until 4th gear.

Mark.

On Again, Off Again...
 

I see you participating in this thread, so I'm going to take a known creep and liar off my ignore list just long enough to debunk some more of your BS...
NO ADVANTAGE whatsoever. Do you think a lock up converter STARTS locked? If that is what you are suggesting, you know even less about transmissions than I might've given you credit for before.
Actually, what I wrote is factually right and true. I OWN one - ZF 6HP28. You should feel my wife's 335D accelerate locked in 2nd. It is truly phenomenal - inline 3.0L 6 diesel BMW making same torque as a stock 5.9 1st gen. Ford is installing that same trans in F150s. Maybe you should read up on what Ford and BMW are installing these days. Maybe if you actually read what I wrote instead of trying to imply I wrote something I did not, I would not have to be responding to your stupid comments right now.
Thanks for clearing up that obvious bit of trivia for us. In fact, that is true. Is is also a fact that it has nothing to do with what started the discussion about lock-up vs. non-lock torque converters. If you are trying to demonstrate your knowledge of auto transmisisons you have FAILED miserably. It doesn't negate the fact that lock up converters, regardless of their gearing in terms of lock-up capabilities will ALWAYS give better average fuel mileage and run cooler. It doesn't change the fact that non-lockup converters are inferior in every way. And PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, it does not change the fact that the answer to the OP's question is NO, unless he is willing to install a different input shaft, engine adapter, valve body and possibly some electronics depending on which Dodge model he is trying to emulate.

Maybe you can help him with that? :w2:

Thanks for proving my point! :tu:

Mark.

Great, now run off to the 1st Gen board like a good little boy. Maybe Bitchie-O will stroke you over there. :lol88:

Nah, I'm here for your amusing flare ups.
Call me your Preparation-H.

Mark.

I see you are still posting in thread. I only hope it something constructive... :tu:

you got a bad tranny
 

My '93 with an auto gets 11 to 12 towing an 8,000 5th wheel. Only time I wished for a stick was coming down a long 8% grade. Trailer brakes faded, truck brakes started smelling, and by the time we got to the bottom we were moving.
The tranny was replaced at 260K miles and now has 80K on it. Oh, climbing that 8% a few days earlier, 90 plus degree temp, the tranny temp guage never got into the hot zone.
It's a good tranny in these older trucks! Your's has problems.