wont start without starting fluid, dies under 1k
 

Hey guys first post so hopefully i'm in the right section. My 12v cummins is fairly stock under the hood, anyways my problems began with falling off idle. I kept raising it to try to keep her running. with my idle at around 1100 it was obvious i have an issue. Soon after I went out to fire her up and it was a no go... just cranks. First I checked the shutoff solenoid and its functioning properly. Then I changed a fuel filter, Im running bio diesel and fuel filters have been my only issue from that. Filter made no difference. So i hit it with starting fluid ( which i hate to do and know I should not keep doing it) anyways it will start on starting fluid and even with the idle so high it still falls off idle. Pedal is stiffer as if no boost to the AFC, and it runs soft as hell. Only pushes 10-15 psi tops. I can normally push 30+ with my hx35. I dont have a fuel pressure gauge ATM but that will be my next step. I have a raptor fuel pump that seems to be pumping like normal. I found that my small plastic boost line that runs under the dash was melted and broken by falling on the exhaust housing and have since fixed it. no help. still wont start. I read some other forms and checked my overflow valve. seems that the balls moves freely and its functioning. Cold or hot still wont start off the starter. What blows my mind is it will bump start. Any help would be appreciated, needless to say Im stumped.

Have you checked your fuel screen in the Lift pump ?

DO NOT USE EATHER AGAIN !!!! blow up your intake grid heater ( Obviously ).. u know that.

I would also recommend a Tork tec like in this link ..

Larryb - ADJUSTABLE Overflow Valve for Dodge Cummins Diesel with Bosch P7100, 94-98.5

I installed one and even at 12* ambient temps all night and not allowing grid heaters .. I litterly can bump the starter and she fires right off .. heater kicks in after its running of course.

Also ... when was the last time you had the IP timing checked ?
Low power and low boost all can be fuel or timing related.

I put a fuel pressure gauge off the second inlet of my P pump today, Im getting around 15lb to the pump not running.

And I do need to check timing but this was a very sudden change, timing shouldnt slip so quick should it?

15 is WAAAAYYY to low .. u need 30psi AT LEAST!!!

that's your issue for sure .. no fuel pressure .. a VP44 would be ok with that but a P-Pump needs more pressure

yes u timing could have slipped suddenly .. that's usually how it happens

Damn well looks like im in the market for a new fuel pump. You Recommend fass? My buddy gets a discount on those. Im not sure I want another Raptor :argh: . Any of them hold up to bio?

just a good mechanical unit will be fine to over 400hp .. and I'm sure your not there yet ..

I recommend o a kit like this .. as I just replaced mine as well and this kit made it a simple install over all ..

Larryb - Dodge Cummins 94-98.5 Lift Transfer pump, 12 valve

I would also recommend deleting your fuel heater if you haven't done so already :tu:

Mechanical over the electric for bio? Im getting A good OFV first to make sure that isnt where all my fuel is going. You know how many lb I should be able to get out of my Raptor 150? Thanks for all the help BTW :c:

I have nearly 300 hp and I have several guys running B20 as I do as well ... we all run a mechanical pump .. not one electronic pump .

that said ... I trust the mechanical pump further than the electronic pumps .. and the typically the electric pumps whip the fuel .. if there is any air in that fuel it only gets worse :tu:

My only concern with the mechanical is they fail into the crankcase right? My pops had it happen while running b100 and it was a mess to say the least. I got a bosch overflow valve from my local Diesel shop. Thinking about going with a Fass 125gph 0-75lb adustable.

My only concern with the mechanical is they fail into the crankcase right? My pops had it happen while running b100 and it was a mess to say the least. I got a bosch overflow valve from my local Diesel shop. Thinking about going with a Fass 125gph 0-75lb adustable. :c:

they rarely fail like that .. chances of it happening like that are more common if your running like 4K rpm or more .. then yes .. electric only .. I regularly run mine into 3200 RPM and have no issues .. my old one was stock(209K).

go mechanical until you get it running good .. then take the time to set up the electric pump and such ... the mechanical will get u goin right now easily :tu:

So i cranked down the adjustment on my raptor and its now pushing 25lb (all the bosch OFV allows for) and then i cracked the injectors and pushed some fuel through. Still wouldnt fire. I disconnected my heater grid and gave it a little hit of ether. Started just like before. Still running rough and falls off below 1k. Thinking timing? You can hear in the video it sounds like a F'in machine gun at lower rpms. Im gonna try timing it. Any thoughts?

NO sound ? what am I supposed to hear ?

just check the timing... I would bet that's one issue ... if that isn't an issue .. start pullin injectors, you may have a tip that's missing or something..:humm:

Yeah the video isnt very loud, It misses at the lower rpm and sounds better up high. Still falls off idle too. Im looking for someone who sells a timing clock kit and im gonna start pulling injectors. Im also going to drain the bio from my tank and go get some real Diesel :tu: . I'll take pics when I pull the injectors apart and get em up here. At this point i wont be suprised if the bio has them all gummed up. :nope:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.die...9e69b9597c.jpg


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.die...ee57475eb0.jpg

Got all my injectors pulled out and they sure looked pretty gunky. I stripped them all apart and let the nozzles sit in carb cleaner for a few days. Im going to blow through the nozzles with the compressor and then put them back together. Then Im taking them out to Diamond Diesel to get tested. Hopefully they work alright after this and ill get her back up and running :tu: .

Anyone know what the nozzle torque spec is??

Filling the fuel filters with ATF .. or SEAFOAM .. would have cleaned them up real nice..
but now that u have them out ..

Yeah I sure couldve gone with that first but I cleaned them and got them tested today. 2 were totally shot just pissing a stream :td: and the other 4 were popping around 240 bar. So I couldve got the 4 rebuilt for 40 a piece and the other 2 I couldve got new bosch ones for 95 a piece at my local shop. That was seeming real spendy though so I just ordered a set of 100hp DAP injectors for $375. :c:

kewl, do u have the mods to support that much fuel ?

u know fuel = heat .. with out more air flow your gonna heat the pistons up real quick and smoke like a freight train .. and get pulled over possibly and fined heavily .. Stock would actually have been fine and once you get the bugs worked out .. go from there.

Ya I know its a little heavy on the fuel side but i have a boost elbow on the hx35 and 4in exhaust all the way back and a high flow intake. I have a good set of gauges and always watch the pyro, shes always ran very cool, ill be sure to keep my foot out of it until i get a turbo pushing some more air :tu:

An afc Kit and some tuning will help. Watch for our turbo sales for 4th of July.

Thanks man are those p pump mechanical tuner things on sale yet?:tu:

I saw somewhere there is a on the fly AFC adjuster .. like in cab or something like that .. I really want one

Maybe someone can link that somewhere ?

Heres the link for the AFC tuner Dodge Ram Cummins - 1994-1998 5.9L 12 Valve Dodge Cummins - 12 Valve P7100 Tuner - Diesel Auto Power, LLC , Its a little spendy tho :scare2: . Anyways I put the new injectors in and bled the air out. Same problems... Runs great above 1500 and starts to fall off anything below that. I can blip the throttle and keep it running down to about 1000rpm, below that she dies quick. still wont start without a shot of ether either. Sounds like its definitely time to check the timing right? Im all out of other ideas, Its getting around 25psi to the IP which is stock spec. Any other thoughts?

Timing

You getting one of those AFC tuners 4x4MAN?? Get some pics up if you do :rocking: . Recommend any threads or vids on timing? I've been avoiding it from the beginning :argh: . Its always looked like a B*tch! :argh:

timing is super easy ...

turn engine over, have one person get the pin into Ip..

pull the Ip gear off, turn engine backwards till its pinned, put Ip gear back on... in a nut shell that's my understanding of factory timing ...

Does it seem to get worse the longer you run the truck? I am having the same problem with my '96. If I run a couple hundred miles straight, stop for gas, and shut the truck off it seems to start way harder than when I started it cold.

And no I don't have the afc attitude module .. but at 699.99 .. I might get one ... and I like the fact I might just be able to control others in my truck ...

My situation at this point doesnt seem to get better or worse depending on how long
I run it, It did get progressively worse after these symptoms started. I'll let you guys know how timing goes, and the AFC control does sound pretty great.:tu:

yeah .. I might be looking into a newer truck so ... we shall see

check out power driven diesels AFC control system if your in the market for adjustable afc control. they call it AFC live pretty good looking system for under half the price of the other system.

To the OP to me it does not sound like a timing issue more like your getting air into the fuel system. The stock filter housings are known for air leaks and could cause the problems you are having.

..

Im going to be buying one after watching this Video .. what an awesome set up .. thanks 94 12 Valve
:tu::rocking::choochoo:

Seems like the set up to have .. good fuel improvements