Timing in inches?? Help lol
 

Alright, so I have a 97 12V 5 speed. Modded the IP for fuel plate contact, #10 fuel plate about halfway up, Banks Twin Ram intake, Banks Quick Turbo, 50+ HP injectors, ARP head studs and EGT and Boost gauges ... Just replaced the IP because some bolt holes stripped out of the AFC when I was modding it :argh:. Figured I'd jump the timing to 16.5* while it was all apart. Only thing is the dial indicator I got is in inches. I've read up a lot on timing since I got it and found a lot of links that helped, but I'm still second guessing myself. Here's what I did:

-After I installed the IP back on, I tightened the nut down so I could time the pump.

-Ensured the timing pin was in on the IP and installed the indicator. It read .389. The chart it gave me said it should be at .200. So what I did was I did the math between what it says 13.5* is supposed to be (.200) and what 16.5* said (.222). So my jump is supposed to be .022 inches.

-I pulled the timing pin out of the IP, put the barring tool in and had my wife crank the wrench clockwise as per the instructions (they were vague. All is said was crank the motor clockwise, not sure it that was the correct direction or not). This moved the indicator COUNTERCLOCKWISE moving the indicator to .367.

-After that I popped the nut back off and moved the engine to TDC using the dimple on the back of the cam gear. Reading dropped a little (less than 16.5*), so I just kept it.

IS THIS CORRECT??? I need a little reassurance here lol :ouch:

Also I don't push the truck hard. Looking for it to run better and get better fuel economy. I do plan on a 3GSK kit and 60lb valve springs this summer.

I don't know about any of that, I paid someone else to do it. I'm actually hung up on... you seriously replaced an IP over stripped AFC bolt holes? Helicoils man. They're like, forty buck on Amazon.

Regardless of how I got to timing my pump, I still did it ... I was looking for help on timing; not hindsight ...

And for anyone else that owns an inch indicator ... I did it correctly. She fired right up and way quicker than at the stock 13.5*. Once I fix the drum brakes, I'll be taking her for a test drive this week.

What was quicker exactly? Because you really don't get any power from timing the pump.

I did the same thing. I bumped mine to 20* tho and can't tell a difference in power. It still starts right away too. Not too sure if its correct. Ima set it back to stock and try it again. Surely you should be able to see a difference in power.

If I'm reading and following your first post correctly you lost .022" of plunger lift than returned the motor to TDC and bolted the gear back on?

if so you retarted your timing instead of advancing it. You are looking for more plunger lift at TDC not less.

I did the math the same way stox5225 which for mine was 12.5* stock which was .2244" I was going to 20* which was.2853 subtracted the difference which was .059" I zeroed out my gauge and moved the big needle to .059" which I thought should be 20*. Popped the gear off and turned it back to tdc put the gear back on. So is that at 20* or did I do something wrong?

You will not gain power by bumping injector pump timing. If you think you feel a power difference, you either have the most precision calibrated ass or the wildest imagination on the planet.

This sounds correct to me as you increased your plunger lift at TDC.

I could not disagree more with this statement

You gained power from nothing more than bumping timing? I'd like to see that.

JBear - The quickness I was referring to was it's start up. It cranks like twice and then she's running. It crank over a bit longer previously.
Patch - Did you have any acceleration issues?? Mine is sputtering around 1600RPM in every gear and I'm not sure why yet.
94 12V - Assuming I cranked the motor the correct direction I'm pretty sure I advanced it, but the dial was moving counterclockwise, so the numbers decrease in the dial. Was I cranking the engine the wrong way? Would that explain the sputtering?

And in my opinion, and theory, jumping the timing adds more compression which is why you must make more mods the higher you go with your timing, so I could totally see gaining more power. Torque I'd think ...:humm:

I didn't see a difference in power nor did my engine get louder. From what I have been told you should see a noticable gain in power and your motor will get louder. I do believe you should see a gain in mid range power.

JBear - The quickness I was referring to was how fast it fired up. Couple cranks of the motor and it was running strong.

Patch - Did you have any sputtering? Mine starts at around 1600RPM until I back off the gas and slowly bring it up to 2K to shift.

94 12V - The dial was spinning counterclockwise, so the numbers decreasing in value. Thinking about it now, if I spun the ratchet clockwise at at the flywheel, that would cause a counterclockwise motion in the crankshaft ... instructions kept saying spin the engine clockwise ... I think you're right and I may have retarded it ... I'll be trying again Friday or this weekend.

Stox5225 No mine does not seem to studder. It seems as if I did nothing to it by bumping it. I'm going to check it again tomorrow to see if something is wrong. I not sure but if you said if your gauge moved counter clock wise I would think you went the wrong way. This was my first time doing it so it's possible I did something wrong.

Woops. I thought it didn't post that first time haha

Patch - Yeah based on some research here on the interwebs, my "symptoms" match those of retarded timing. Starts quicker, higher EGT's, crap for power, and white smoke. Thanks man!!

Yeah ima check mine again too I wasn't sure if your supposed to subtract the numbers the get the value for timing or actually turn it the like the number it said on the chart.

I hope not, because mine would be spinning a lot lol. Like I mention, with the pump pin timed, the dial read .389. .200 is what the chart says for my pump at 13.5* ... I'm gunna stick with finding the difference lol.

Haha ok that's what I was unsure about on mine. Thanks for the help!!

OK, this makes sense... if you did it backwards as 94 suspected. The higher the timing, the harder it is to start so retarding it should (to a point) make it easier.
The engine doesn't get louder, the pump gets louder. The only thing that happens to your "power" is that it moves to a different point in the rpm band.
What it adds is more drive pressure (also known as the power to puke oil through perfectly good seals) which is not the same thing at all. This last bit I could be missing something diesel specific on, but my understanding has always been that compression points are determined by the volume of the event chamber. I don't see how the timing of the fuel in the combustion process could affect anything but where the bang is biggest in the engine's rotation. I've changed timing three times, and everyone I know who has done so (dozens) never commented on anything but lower EGTs, the movement of the proverbial "sweet spot" for mpg on the tach and how much harder it is to start in the cold.

I agree with you the power band moves but it seems like mine stayed the same. And the pump didn't seem to get louder. Maybe it is set at 20* but I sure expected to notice a difference. The get does seem a Lil cooler but not much maybe 50*.

Yes I have along with many others have made pretty good gains with timing changes. While I do not have dyno proof I do have extra footage and extra rpm turned at the end of a pull to prove extra power has been made.

Yes those are the symptoms of retarded timing going the other way should fix the issue. For advanced timing more plunger lift at TDC for retarded timing less plunger lift at TDC.

I will concede that pump timing can help facilitate making more power, but only to the extent that there are other mods which work better with bumped timing than without; and that the same timing on an otherwise stock truck would gain you nothing on the dyno, at least no more than you'd gain by driving from one dyno to another on the same day. 20° may not be enough to really hear it if you aren't listening for it, but it does start to knock with much over 19°. When you'll notice it is when there's a load on it that it can't do anything with, like stopped at a light in drive. Quite a few of my friends are running 25-30°, and those things sound like a rod is about to punch through when they're lugging.