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-   12 Valve 2nd Gen Dodge Cummins 94-98 (https://www.dieselbombers.com/12-valve-2nd-gen-dodge-cummins-94-98/)
-   -   No overdrive, please help! (https://www.dieselbombers.com/12-valve-2nd-gen-dodge-cummins-94-98/111001-no-overdrive-please-help.html)

JBearSVT 04-06-2013 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by mysterync (Post 1000682)
I feel pretty confident you have a tps issue. Its very common to have bell crank wear which causes erratic tps voltages.

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I just did a search for "bell crank", and found that you've been answering these questions for quite awhile! I think I found more questions than answers though, as I'm still not sure what a bell crank is or where to find/check it. And now I want to know what a POT is too, which is of course unsearchable like all three letter words. My main concern is that if two of the wires going to the TPS are supposed to show 5V and one of them is by all indication dead, what does that say about whatever that wire is coming from? That's an issue going into the TPS, not coming out of it. Unless I'm just misunderstanding the directions for checking the TPS.

mysterync 04-06-2013 08:10 AM


Originally Posted by JBearSVT (Post 1000378)
Hmm. Well, I probably shouldn't, but right now I'm trying to rule out everything internal. Since the transmission is all new, and this problem was present before I put it in.

A tps is a variable resistor or some might call it a potentiometer. All tps sensors are a 3 wire sensor. One hot (in this case 5v vref) one ground and a signal. The signal is connected to a "sweep" which is turned by the tab on the end of the bell crank. As the throttle is applied the sweep moves closer to the hot side of the resistor therefore increasing the voltage. The pcm uses this voltage in a map or chart (easiest way I can explain it) to calculate throttle angle which is in turn used to make of and lockup adjustments. Its only other use on 12v trucks is freeze frame data. The computer looks for a starting voltage of around 1v and hits full throttle around 4.89-5.00 volts. Its very simple to determine without a wiring diagram which wire is which. With the connector plugged in you should have one 5v wire, one wire with .5-.1v and one wire with 0v. 5v is your 5v vref. The low voltage wire is your signal and you 0v is your ground. To verify, unplug the connector. Vref will remain 5v, signal will come up to around 5v (the signal circuit uses a bias voltage to verify the circuit is working, the bias voltage is supplied by a very high impedance resistor, in some cases a meter may pull this voltage below 5v and in all cases a test light would be capable of pulling the bias to ground therefore it won't light) and your ground will remain at 0. To test the tps output determine your signal wire, make sure it starts at around 1v and smoothly climbs to 4.59 + (hopefully 5v because this particular pcm sees 5v as 100% throttle)
Do this a few times to verify that the numbers remain consistent. Wiggle the bell crank (the bell crank is the portion of the pump linkage which engages the tps and attaches the throttle cables and the pump linkage. The most common wear is up and down or back and forth toward the pump. Often we find the plastic bushings have worn allowing the linkage to move which effect the tps voltage. In some cases the wear is severe and wears into the bell cranks rod or bore which would require replacement. A pot is basically a used controlled variable resistor which allows you to trick the pcm into commanding lockup and od via a knob in the cab. I would recommend fixing the tps system but if funds are limited the pot will do the trick.

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mysterync 04-06-2013 08:15 AM

This video is by one of the best diagnosticians and instructors I've ever seen:

This is by Dave Goerend and is an excellent visual representation of what I've explained

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diesel pap 04-06-2013 08:20 AM

i have the tps deletes on my site. the name of it is dnr customs. :hellox:

mysterync 04-06-2013 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by diesel pap (Post 1000760)
i have the tps deletes on my site. the name of it is dnr customs. :hellox:

I keep them on the shelf but their extremely easy to build yourself. About $5.00 in parts max.

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JBearSVT 04-06-2013 12:04 PM

So, POT is short for potentiometer? I've only heard them called TPS deletes. I put one in last year, hated it. Took it out. I'll never do it again. I really prefer to have it all work properly, as Dodge intended- which is to say I like it being variable, not locked into shifting at whatever it's set at. I realize it's still technically variable, but I don't feel like messing with it every time I accelerate under different loads/conditions than the time before. It also had other issues, wasn't working right, although I don't remember what they were. I just remember they went away when I went back to the stock/TPS arrangement.

Regardless, those videos were both great. And wow, I want a Verus. (while I'm dreaming, I'd also like this problem to fix itself, but I digress). So, the bell crank is the throttle linkage under the TPS? That makes sense. While I was messing with it to test the voltage, I don't recall there being any play or looseness in it one way or the other, I believe it worked very smoothly, but I wasn't looking for this so I will check it again when I get back to the shop where I left the truck. Thank you very much for all your time on this!

JBearSVT 04-18-2013 07:58 PM

So, trying to diagnose this was pretty frustrating, until we realized that the point of the frustration led straight to the problem- which was actually pretty stupid. Voltage readings on the TPS both for idle and sweep were erratic, getting the same reading twice was almost impossible. Turns out, this was because (even though everything looked fine on the outside) the wires were actually loose inside the plug on the pigtail side.
And come to find out, this pigtail isn't available from Chrysler anymore, and I didn't have any more luck at the local chain parts stores. A buddy of mine works for a Cummins distributor, and he wasn't able to come up with anything either, but when I took a picture of the plug he was able to dig through the inventory and find one that matched. All fixed, and the world is right again. Now if I could just get it to the body shop...

JBearSVT 04-22-2013 05:06 PM

OK, all was supposedly right. Overdrive works fine, but now it's stuttering on the 1-2 upshift. Bad. :argh:


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