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  #1  
Old 03-07-2012, 01:47 AM
Diesel Wrench

   

Default "Ultimate" Combo

this may be disastrous, but i would like to ask

has any actually assembled the "mythical" "ultimate" combanation?

Cummins with an Allison transmission in a ford body.

Is there a "better" combination?

i'm not trying to start a truck war here, just trying to get peoples opinion on the best engine, transmission and truck body from any year to produce the "ultamate" 3/4 or 1 ton pickup

this would be for all around use, ie: a daily driver, towing & occasional off road

while we are at it lets throw in some axles, tires and what have you.

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  #2  
Old 03-07-2012, 03:21 AM
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if your gonna go as far as getting an allison to mate up with a cummins you might as well have one built from sun-coast witch for a few more bucks would be way better than an stock allison but yes ik a guy who has one its like that the ultimate machine the adapter plate for the allison was like a 800 bucks alone and then the controller but his is sweet shifts amazing but his is only like 500 to the wheels witch correct me if im wrong the allison is good to like 550-600 hp so hes like in that happy zone but he dosnt wanna go anymore

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  #3  
Old 03-07-2012, 09:23 AM
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There have been a few Ford body, cummins powered, allison shifted trucks built. I don't think I'd go that approach myself.

Since I'm into clean tuning, I'd start with a CR cummins, put that in a CC Ford body, and either just build the Dodge trans, or put a built BTS 4R100 in it.

If I didn't care so much about the tuning aspect, I'd put a DT360 in it. A 466 would be cool too, but the 360 is at least close to a cummins in size, just a much more stout engine.

I'm not an allison fan.

To put a built allison behind something it wasn't originally behind, is going to cost you over $10k anyways... Why not just use the trans that came with the truck (if it came with the Ford body, either a built 4R100 or a built 5R110), or the one that came with the engine (from the cummins, a built 47 or 48 should suffice). It'd save a ton of money and probably hold up better anyways.

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  #4  
Old 03-07-2012, 10:21 AM
Diesel Wrench

   

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the DT360 would be an interesting one. wonder what it would take to increase the HP on one of those, aftermarket support, etc

what about a Caterpillar engine. not too familiar with there line but have always heard that there some of the best engines out there.

as far as a transmission goes, i agree that nothing less then one built up for more HP. Suncoast stage 4 or 5, ATS
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  #5  
Old 03-07-2012, 10:49 AM
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I like the idea of a Cummins, Allison, F250 combo. A Fummins seems to be a real good combo. As for transmission, I like the Allison 6speed as it has the triptronic (or whatever it is called) bush button gear selector. I know you can get a kit for the 5speeds as well from Fleece, I think. Also has a nice high ratio for hiway driving.

As for CAT, I'd stay far far away from one that can fit in a pickup. Larger engines are good, but not their smaller ones. IMO of course. After 10 years in the Heavy Duty Off Road business, I've seen a few of them have issues. Haven't seen it all though, no one has.

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2001 RAM2500, 5.9L Cummins. EJWA CTS/Smarty, 150HP BigDawg Injectors, HotRod VP44, 5" exhaust, FASS HD150 w/Vulcan DSV, HX35/40 over S471, Colt "Big Stick" Cam, S&B CNC Intake Elbow, O-Ringed head, 110# valve springs. Built 47RE. D80 w/discs. Espar Hydronic 5.
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2012, 10:50 AM
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Maybe a built up 6.8 liter Deere, Tier 2. Has a VP44 on it anyways. Put a 12 volt VP on it, chip it, could work.
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2012, 11:06 AM
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i wouldn't put an Allison behind my cummins in my ford if i were to waist the money id just built a sun coast auto im running the bullet proof nv4500 and wouldn't trade it for an auto

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  #8  
Old 03-07-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 2004LB7 View Post
the DT360 would be an interesting one. wonder what it would take to increase the HP on one of those, aftermarket support, etc

what about a Caterpillar engine. not too familiar with there line but have always heard that there some of the best engines out there.

as far as a transmission goes, i agree that nothing less then one built up for more HP. Suncoast stage 4 or 5, ATS
There's a guy local to me running a DT360 stuffed into a CC/LB DRW 2000ish F350. Pretty neat truck. Not turned up too much, I think he laid down similar numbers to the one's in my sig. Pretty sweet though. I never really knew about the DT360 until he popped up. The crank of a DT makes a cummins crank look like it belongs in a Toyota. The guys goes by the name pipewhiner on powerstrokenation and has a huge build up on there of it. Carson Stauffer helped with a lot of the adapters etc.

Actually... I found a pic of it.

Click the image to open in full size.


Originally Posted by RAWilliams View Post
I like the idea of a Cummins, Allison, F250 combo. A Fummins seems to be a real good combo. As for transmission, I like the Allison 6speed as it has the triptronic (or whatever it is called) bush button gear selector. I know you can get a kit for the 5speeds as well from Fleece, I think. Also has a nice high ratio for hiway driving.

As for CAT, I'd stay far far away from one that can fit in a pickup. Larger engines are good, but not their smaller ones. IMO of course. After 10 years in the Heavy Duty Off Road business, I've seen a few of them have issues. Haven't seen it all though, no one has.
I just don't see the allisons being as strong as some of the others. IMO, a BTS 4R100 is one of the strongest autos available. I guess at that point most of the built autos will hold up to what 90% of the guys can throw at them.

Originally Posted by RAWilliams View Post
Maybe a built up 6.8 liter Deere, Tier 2. Has a VP44 on it anyways. Put a 12 volt VP on it, chip it, could work.
I have a buddy running a Deere 466 in his mid 80's F250. Uses it for sled pulling. We also had an 99 body style F350 running a built DT466, tons of vids on youtube of both of these trucks. The 466 truck was ~1500hp, or so they claimed. Seemed like it was true watching it pull.

Originally Posted by 94cummins12v View Post
i wouldn't put an Allison behind my cummins in my ford if i were to waist the money id just built a sun coast auto im running the bullet proof nv4500 and wouldn't trade it for an auto
I agree. It's just very expensive to put an allison behind the cummins, and for what? Is it worth an extra $5k to run that trans? That'd be a built allison against a built 47rh or 48RE or similar. Seems like the auto builders have the Dodge auto trannies down pat. If I went through the trouble to put something else in, it'd be the 4R100 anyways. I know a few guys thinking about putting a built 4R100 with a PCS controller behind their built to the hilt 6.4's.

Interesting discussion guys!
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2012, 12:53 PM
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No, an Allison may not be the strongest or best option. I still like it for the manual shifting capabilities and high O/D ratio.
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2012, 12:54 PM
Diesel Fan

   

Default

Originally Posted by Mdub707 View Post
There have been a few Ford body, cummins powered, allison shifted trucks built. I don't think I'd go that approach myself.

Since I'm into clean tuning, I'd start with a CR cummins, put that in a CC Ford body, and either just build the Dodge trans, or put a built BTS 4R100 in it.

If I didn't care so much about the tuning aspect, I'd put a DT360 in it. A 466 would be cool too, but the 360 is at least close to a cummins in size, just a much more stout engine.

I'm not an allison fan.

To put a built allison behind something it wasn't originally behind, is going to cost you over $10k anyways... Why not just use the trans that came with the truck (if it came with the Ford body, either a built 4R100 or a built 5R110), or the one that came with the engine (from the cummins, a built 47 or 48 should suffice). It'd save a ton of money and probably hold up better anyways.
There are some medium duty trucks with Cummins engines in them backed by the Allison transmissions. Usually most are the Allison 2000 and 2400 transmission. Although the bell housings between the two interchange. The Allisons are mounted up using a SAE #3 bell housing and there are stock Cummins SAE #3 adapters out there. If you get those parts you can mate the Allison behind the Cummins very easily. The electronics is where things get pricey. Since Allison transmissions are behind stock Cummins engines then it will last fine behind a stock 12v/24v or CR Cummins.
You can take a stock GM Allison TCM and modify the wiring harness to make it work for your application. It has been done on the 6 speeds as well to make it a stand alone transmissions. To take advantage of the Tap Shift and Tow Haul modes you need to wire up a BCM as well. In all the wiring isn't difficult. There is a very detailed thread on it all over at 4btswaps.com.

As far as the "ultimate truck", I personally would go with a CR Cummins with a built Allison 1000 6 speed in a Chevy or Ford body. The Ford would be good for the 4x4 with the solid axles vs. the Chevy. Although if I wanted a rock solid motor and transmission with little to none electronics. I would go with a P-Pumped 24v with a NV5600 or a NV4500. You can do almost everything mechanical on that setup. Once again I would choose an older Chevy or Ford truck for that setup.
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