Well Gang I've updated my web page concerning 2 cycle oil and fuel additive and what they use to make them...

http://www.frontiernet.net/~mopar197..._cycle_oil.htm

 

I will confirm this... I was shocked myself to see a very popular brand fail so badly on the rollers. I watch Muddy turn out lower numbers that usual... Then to switch to the 2 cycle oil fuel and gain it back... (total Shock!)

I love it when my reasearch works!

 

I do have to say it is very interesting to read your webpage and the info you have there. A lot of this kind of reminds me how some livestock feed companies would add chicken feathers to the feed years ago to increase the protien levels in the feed. But didnt tell everyone it wasnt digestable protien so in the end you didnt get what you thought you were buying.

 

I also just relized something else too...

ULSD has a flash point of about 150*F so you engine coolant temp is about 190*F-200*F. Then all a certane booster is a flash point reducer. So why in the hell would anyone need to reduce the flash point of diesel fuel that is well below the temp of the coolant??? This is going to advance the timing and increase the burn rate. Hence the typical diesel knock! But if you increase you flash point a bit say closer to 190*F it tend to ignite later, burn slower and longer. Hence why using 2 cycle oil quiets the engine down. But I'm not going to mention the fact that your fuel system will completely lubed too...

Now I can see reducing the flash point of you fuel in the winter time for extreme cold conditions. (Minus anything) but even then I've never had a problem with gelling or starting with a good snowmobile 2 cycle oil.

This is why Muddy lost the HP/TQ using the popular brand name certane booster. But when he switch back over to the 2 cycle oil only fuel it came back...

 

Ok... I've got more to add to this thread... Here is some of the common chemicals in diesel fuel additives...

Naphtha - Flashpoint (-86°F to 109°F) Depending on grade. (CAS No.: 8032-32-4, 8030-30-6, 8002-05-9; aka petroleum ether, white spirit (but in the UK white spirit is something different entirely), Ligroin; VM&P Naphtha; Varnish Makers and Painter's Naphtha [1]; Benzin; Petroleum Naphtha, Naphtha ASTM, Petroleum Spirits, shellite, ronsonol; not to be confused with Naphthalene) is a group of various liquid hydrocarbon intermediate refined products of varying boiling point ranges from 20 to 75 ºC (68 to 167 ºF), which may be derived from oil or from coal tar, and perhaps other primary sources.
Naphtha is used primarily as feedstocks for producing a high octane gasoline component via the catalytic reforming process. Naphtha is also used in the petrochemical industry for producing olefins in steam crackers and in the chemical industry for solvent (cleaning) applications.
Benzene - Flashpoint (12°F) Depending on grade. HEALTH HAZARD!
Benzene is an organic chemical compound with the formula C6H6. It is sometimes abbreviated Ph-H. Benzene is a colorless and flammable liquid with a sweet smell and a relatively high melting point. It is carcinogenic and its use as additive in gasoline is now limited, but it is an important industrial solvent and precursor in the production of drugs, plastics, synthetic rubber, and dyes. Benzene is a natural constituent of crude oil, but it is usually synthesized from other compounds present in petroleum. Benzene is an aromatic hydrocarbon and the second [n]-annulene ([6]-annulene), a cyclic hydrocarbon with a continuous alternation of single and double bonds.
Xylene - Flashpoint (62°F to 75°F) Depending on grade. Xylene is a colorless, sweet-smelling liquid that is very flammable. It occurs naturally in petroleum and coal tar and is formed during forest fires. The chemical properties differ slightly from isomer to isomer. The melting point is between −47.87 °C (m-xylene) and 13.26 °C (p-xylene). The boiling point is for each isomer at around 140 °C. The density is at around 0.87 kg/L and thus is less dense than water. Xylene in air can be smelled at 0.08 to 3.7 parts of xylene per million parts of air (ppm) and can begin to be tasted in water at 0.53 to 1.8 ppm.
Chemical industries produce xylene from petroleum. It is one of the top 30 chemicals produced in the United States in terms of volume. Xylene is used as a solvent and in the printing, rubber, and leather industries. p-Xylene is used as a feedstock in the production of terephthalic acid, which is a monomer used in the production of polymers. It is also used as a cleaning agent for steel and for silicon wafers and chips, a pesticide [1], a thinner for paint, and in paints and varnishes. It may be substituted for toluene to thin laquers where slower drying is desired. It is found in small amounts in airplane fuel and gasoline.
Naphthalene - Flashpoint (174°F to 188°F) Depending on grade. HEALTH HAZARD!
Naphthalene (not to be confused with naphtha) (also known as naphthalin, naphthaline, moth ball, tar camphor, white tar, or albocarbon), is a crystalline, aromatic, white, solid hydrocarbon, best known as the primary ingredient of mothballs. Naphthalene is volatile, forming a flammable vapor. Its molecules consist of two fused benzene rings. It is manufactured from coal tar, and converted to phthalic anhydride for the manufacture of plastics, dyes and solvents. It is also used as an antiseptic and insecticide, especially in mothballs. p-Dichlorobenzene is now often used instead of naphthalene as a mothball substitute. Naphthalene easily sublimates at room temperature.
Mineral Spirits - Flashpoint (69°F to 131°F) Depending on grade.
Mineral Spirits is a petroleum distilate commonly used as a paint thinner and mild solvent. In Europe, it is referred to as petroleum spirit or white spirit. In industry, mineral spirits is used for cleaning and degreasing machine tools and parts.
Also known as...
White Spirits is used as an extraction solvent, as a cleaning solvent, as a degreasing solvent and as a solvent in aerosols, paints, wood preservatives, lacquers, varnishes, and asphalt products. In western Europe about 60% of the total white spirit consumption is used in paints, lacquers and varnishes. White spirit is the most widely used solvent in the paint industry. In households, white spirit is commonly used to clean paint brushes after decorating. Its paint thinning properties enable brushes to be properly cleaned (by preventing the paint from hardening and ruining the bristles) and therefore enabling them to be re-used.

Now take a look at Schaeffer's Diesel Fuel Treatment...
http://www.schaefferoil.com/msdspdf/137.pdf

Refer to chemical list above... Now ask the question where is the lubricants??? <- Your VP44 pump!

 

I'm confused, what does the flashpoint have to do with your coolant temp?
Under the pressure these diesels push, the combustion temps are around 750* f simply from the pressure. lowering the flashpoint makes it burn faster adding a little power and response i believe.
Am I wrong here?

 

Flash point has a lot to do with it. It changes burn rate and timing of the igntion. Basically when you increase you certane you decraes the delay of ignition of the fuel. But remember the diesel engine was design around this delay. So if you remove it you start fire advanced timing and burning more like gasoline with a sudden pop!

As for the start of the cycle when air is drwn in it will be a bit warmer that outside from the turbo and intercooler. But bascially the air entire that cylinder will warm up to engine temps at least before compression. 190-200*F and go up from there during compression stroke. Once fired it will be well in the 750*F (and possibly highier)... But cools quickly bcause of coolant temps, oil coolers spray the bottom of the pistons, etc. You load and how much throttle plays a big roll in this.

So if you increase the flash point of the fuel it seem to burn slower and longer. As you can see with my previous post with the Dyno. I did 381/826 and stock I did 228/462.

A buddy of mine used a popular fuel additive (expensive one) and lost 9/17 on the dyno and then gained it back plus a bit with only 2 cycle oil. Certane additives are not quite always a good thing. As proved here... The only time you need high certane levels is in the winter time to help aid in starting of the truck.

What is Certane Rating???
A measure of the starting and warm-up characteristics of a fuel. In cold weather or in service with prolonged low loads, a higher cetane number is desirable. Legislation dictates the Cetane index should be 40 or above.

 

I understand what flashpoint is but you were comparing it to coolant temps of 190 rather than combustion chamber temp of 750*

 

Why do you need to reduce you flash point of your fuel for summer time useage? (Increase certane index). There is no reason for it. during the winter time when the block is ice cold (32*F) and lower yeah you'll need a good bump in certane to make it burn from a cold start. But once the block warms up the air warms up you don't require a certane booster any longer. The air temp will always be at least a minimum temp of the coolant in the block when entering the cylinder. Yes I know compression will add more temp also but... During the summer time I finding that there is no need for very low flash point fuels at all...

USLD has a flash point of 150*F... Trust me it doesn't take mush to ignite that...
http://www.cenexenergy.com/Downloads/2ULSDSpec_2006.pdf

A Cetane rating of at least 40 is recommended at temperatures above 32 degrees (Highier flash points for highier temps)
A Cetane rating of at least 45 is recommended at temperatures below 32 degrees (Lower flash points for lower temps)
The cetane number measures the ignition quality of a diesel fuel.

It is measured in special ASTM variable compression ratio test engine that is closely controlled with regard to temperatures ( coolant 100C, intake air 65.6C ), injection pressure ( 1500psi ), injection timing 13 degrees BTDC, and speed (900rpm ). The compression ratio is adjusted until combustion occurs at TDC ( the ignition delay is 13 degrees ). The test is then repeated with reference fuels with five cetane numbers difference, until two of them have compression ratios that bracket the sample. The cetane number is then determined by interpolation.

Typically engines are designed to use fuels with Cetane Numbers of 40-55, because below 38 a more rapid increase in ignition delay. The significance of the cetane number increases with the speed of the engine, and large, low speed diesel engines often only specify viscosity, combustion and contaminant levels, as Cetane Number requirement of the engine is met by most distillate and residual fuels that have the appropriate properties. High speed diesel engines ( as in cars and trucks ) virtually all are designed to accept fuels around 50 Cetane Numbers, with higher numbers being a waste.

However, Cetane Number is only one important property of diesel fuels, with three of the others being also very important. Firstly, the viscosity is important because many injection systems rely on the lubricity of the fuel for lubrication. Secondly, the cold weather properties are important, remember that normal alkanes are desirable, but the desirable diesel fraction alkanes have melting points above 0C temperature, so special flow-enhancing additives and changes to the hydrocarbon profiles occur seasonally. That's why it's never a good idea to store diesel from summer for winter use. Thirdly, diesel in many countries has a legal minimum flash point ( the minimum temperature it must attain to produce sufficient vapours to ignite when a flame is applied. In all cases it's usually well above ambient ( 60C+, kerosene is 37C+, whereas gasoline is typically below -30C ), and anybody mixing a lower flash point fraction with diesel will usually void all insurance and warranties on the vehicle. The recent increase in blending fuels has resulted in significantly more frequent analyses of fuel tank contents from diesel vehicle fires.

 

Ok one question, why is it that Bosch wants our Centane at 50 and up and over in the EU I've read its about 55 average and 50 is the lowest they have so why is the low 40 Centane we have here OK? I would think Bosch knows whay our fule systems should have and big oil should make whay is required for it to run.

Also I had a tank of #2 that was left over winterised fuel (and no it was not mixed with 1 fuel) that had 45 Centane and my truck ran the best it ever did on ULSD with no additives in it added by me compared to the normal 40 Centane we have any other time.