[QUOTE=emp1134;403959]yeah I know the manifold swap isn't just a simple bolt on, and maybe a waste of time, but I want the sound of a ISB just not a 2nd gen truck.
If the used manifold I bought ever shows up, I'll be sure and snap some pics during the install and try and keep track of every part I use. So for others wanting to do it, the more you know the easier it is.
I've ridden in a 07 that had a stock 2nd gen manifold on it, he used the stock he351 turbo, added about 8 inches to his downpipe, extended his turbo oil drain tube, shortened his hot air tube, used flexible piece of rubber intake tubing off 7.3 powerstroke connected to a BHAF for his air intake. It sounded great by the way.
I have some differences in what he did to what I am going to do. Will post when I am done.



I can't wait!!!!! Ya'll can say it's a waste of time if you want, but the sound of the CR compared to a 2nd Gen is the only thing that's kept me from gettin a newer truck. The sound of a 2nd Gen with the fact that it's much easier and less expensive to make more HP with a common rail.......what more could you want? -

AF1CUMMINS's Sig:

2001 Dodge 2500 Ext. Cab Long Bed
HO Cummins/ 6spd/ 4X4
2" Leveling kit/ 3rd Gen polished wheels with 35" BFG Mud Terrain KM2's
Silencer ring MIA, 4" turbo back to 5" Aussie stacks
Quadzilla Adrenaline
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AEM Work Horse HD Intake
South Bend DD #3850 pressure plate/ hydraulic upgrade

I like this thread! All along I have tried to get better mileage out of my truck. I have always said I have some power to burn if needed to get there. Hmmm..... (Guess how willing I would be to give up some power depends on the price of fuel really.) I too have noticed how much soot is in the oil in these engines. My oil is just as black after I change it and this is even before starting it the first time after the change! Wow!!
I hope we are talking about the same things here. I guess the '99 24V 5.9L and on has been referred to as an ISB engine. I found this article that had some good info in it: findarticles.com
What I mean by the same things are: I believe the third 'event' is just on 04.5 and newer Cummins and that it is just for emissions. I think the '03 and '04 had two 'events' and that is what quieted them down over the '99 to '02 24V's (Which have a single injection per cycle!). My friend has an '04 with a 305 HP engine. His oil will stay clean for a few thousand miles after a change. He also gets great mileage (I would say better than mine here; but, mine has always gotten 14 - 15 MPG since new. So mine is not a good one to compare to! That is another thread though....) If his only has two 'events' then maybe that is a lot of the difference between his and a normal '06 truck. I will have to check but I believe his is as quiet as mine.
That brings up the other 'same thing'. When you guys talk about changing the exhaust manifold to get that 'sound' out of yours: Are you talking about out the exhaust tip? Because I don't believe it will really change it much at all. Now, the turbo and the muffler (Even the size of the pipe for that matter) will make a bit of a change in the exhaust note.
Now, if you are talking about from under the hood; then that is a totally different matter (And I'm sure that difference is from a single injection 'event' per cycle as compared to the quieter more than one per cycle!).
As for someone who might be working on limiting the injection events, let's not all try to contact him or 'bomb'ard him with questions. If he is already experiencing problems that would only add to his problems. I will look into it and I promise: if there is anything there that will help others I will be happy to let you all know that are interested!
Dan -

Dan, I was just refering to the sound coming out of the exhaust. I'm not really too concerned with the motor sounding the same. But it does make a substantial difference. I'm going to post two videos from YouTube so ya'll get an idea. Thanks to emp for tellin us where the second vid was. The first will be just a normal 2007 Common Rail truck with a straight pipe, the other will be a 2007 Common Rail truck with this 2nd Gen exhaust manifold mod. You can truly tell a HUGE difference and it really does sound a LOT like a VP44 truck.


-

Dan,
Sorry, I guess my memory isn't that good. But you are correct in your years with the injection events. This is why the 2nd gen 24V ISB makes so much noise or clatter.

Consider this, a good friend, you know to whom I am referring to, said to me a while back that the more events you have the quieter the truck gets, the hotter the internals get and the worse off this is for the oil, the coolant and the life of the major internals. He did not say that getting a new truck was bad and in fact said that if you do the 2004.5 for an ISBE or the 2010 6.7L with the ISBE (Tier 3 SCR) is the way to go under different conditions.

What this means is that for stock power and reliability the 2004.5 is good to go, is trouble free and seems to be the best ISBE block made. The 2010 is on the other hand the best for those concerned about getting better mileage and still have lots of power. The issue with all trucks beyond 2003 for sure is that none of them are designed to be grocery getters - they need to be driven hard so cook all the coke out, and keep it out.

Power comes at a price though because as these numbers climbed throughout the early part of 2000 to now the mileage continued to drop. Reliability and power can only really be achieved by using a P Pump and that too comes with a price.

Where I sit with my 2002 - it needs a clutch and a set of twins - then I won't have any smoke, way better mileage than a new truck, no complicated SCR crap to deal with and oh yeah its PAID for!

Of course this is only my opinion. -

Wyatt Earp's Sig:

Wyatt Earp
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It's not just emissions, its power also. You can't just dump the whole event without reprogrammig the main event or you loose a lot of HP off the top end where the 3rd event is triggered, around 100 hp from all accounts. That event is also responsible for a torque peak that runs almost all the way to 3k also.

The 3rd event, or extension of the main event as some say, doesn't fire until high rpm high load conditions anyway. Keep the rpm's under 2500 and there wil be little evidence of it and the mileage is so close the 2 event engines its hard to tell the difference.

The whole emissions, more soot in the oil, etc, is a function of the cam grind and the timing those things are much easier to change and while still technically illegal don't get as much attention as the wholesale reprogramming of a CARB certified fueling program.

Rather than fight with that its much more effective to change out the cam, add larger injectors, and advance the timing to recover the lower end power and keep the rpm's from climbing into the region where the 3rd event is problem. This mod seems to offer the best route for addressing mileage also. Some are rpeorting an average 40% increase in their overall mileage, much better low end power, and it does help clean up the dirty oil problem right after change.

Don't expect a drastic change on the oil as the newer oils are much better at suspending soot and the fact that the power ouput is double what these motors started out with in 1989 contributes greatly. Power makes soot which the oil SHOULD suspend and keep out of the engine parts. -

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Wyatt, not to worry: My memory isn't very good either! Guess that is just what I'm stuck with.... LOL

Cerber: Excellent post! This the info we are all looking for. As I won't have any trouble in doing any mods, I am willing to try any that work. This route would be much more doable for most of us since we have no way to reprogram anyway.
I didn't know about it mostly being over 2500 rpm. Kind of makes it a mute point then doesn't it. Anytime we are trying for mileage, we are well under that figure anyway!
I would like some more info on this. I just got back from an empty road trip of just under 500 miles. I knew it wouldn't figure pretty as it was just about a whole tank of fuel. Granted we were in a head wind both ways (I think that was a cruel trick. Why couldn't it have been a tail wind both ways?) but I wanted more than 15 mpg out of it!

Maybe we need another thread detailing that info...... What say you all?

Dan -

over on COMP D there is alot of discussion about the 3rd event. in alot of the high powered common rails it seems to be melting the piston at lower temperatures because there is fuel still burining in the piston for X amount of degree's of rotation by the crankshaft. also, being the 04.5 and up trucks that have the 3rd event it decreases the longevity of the motor. if an injector sticks open you can easily burn a piston.


the 3rd event is useless on a 800hp truck. -

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We need to keep this thread going!
800 HP would be so nice! At the rate I'm going, I'll never know about that though. In fact, with the pay cuts this year I should really scale back to about a 200 HP truck. Yuck! That thought sucks!!
If I could get a 40% increase in mileage, I would be willing to change out the cam and injectors!! I get a lot of 15 mpg tanks. I consider myself an easy driver too. Mostly I drive around like a granny. A lot of people have to race around me and seem to 'say' that I should be at home asleep if I'm going to take off that slowly. . . . .

Wonder what parts would be the best to get? Maybe I need to get me a P-pump!! A CR with a P-pump would be pretty cool!! Might even be able to make some descent power too!!! -

how hard would it be to run a ecm tune for a 03-04.5 305/555 rated engine? I'm not after high hp, just longevity, and maybe better fuel mileage. my truck rarely gets revved past 2500rpm but it still trashes its oil and sucks the fuel down. If I had to guess I would say this 3rd injection event is there the whole time.

as to p-pumping one that gets expensive real quick... although very cool -

emp1134's Sig:

2006 3500 Black Sport QC 4x4 G56 dually, Amsoil w/bypass, CON OFE,Mag-Hytec on rear, pyro boost & rear diff temp gauges, AeroTurbine 4040 in place of cat, high idle, K&N cold air w/EaAU 4095, QUAD boost fooler, Rancho RS5K's, DS Predator/puck stack
2006 CRD Liberty Sport 4x4
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