i hate to beat a dead horse but i have questions. i have read on multiple forums about many types of 4x4s about death wobble. there is no deffinative answer about the cause in my opinion.just heated debate. some swear its tires, others say track bar. i dont want to start a debate id just like to start a poll on it and just list what mods you have done if any. when did it start and when or if it stopped. details please. i have a 2005 ram 2500 i installed the 2 inch leveling spacer in the front. no new track bar. same day added 315 tires (i will have to check load range) no drop pitman. and had alignment done. dw started same day. all steering/ front end parts checked and rechecked and rechecked again. 2 days ago i removed leveling kit, dw gone. maybe this can help me wrap my brain around it. thanks

 

I've had this happen only 1 time. I was going down the freeway doing 70 mph and went over an over pass and where the over pass met the road again it was pretty rough throwing me into the the death wobble. I had to pullover to get it to stop. havent had it since but still worried everytime I go down rough roads. My tires are stock the only thing i have done to the front end is a leveling kit.

 

You need to stop and think about the suspension geometry and how it gets affected when you raise the front end with a leveling kit or springs. That will help you start to understand what is going on.

To start with these trucks have a lot of weight setting IN FRONT of the axle center line. When you makes changes that has to be taken into account. Change the angles and you introduce different problems.

To begin with I do NOT like a leveling kit that is just spacers. They seem to cause more issues at times than they are worth. When you go with a good set of VR springs that speciically for the application there seems to be a lot less trouble. The supension as a whole needs to work together and a spacer just does not cut it. The changed angle coupled with the weight seems to put it outside a comfort zone for the suspension.

When you installed the leveling kit you changed the starting and endng point for the suspension arc, caster on the front end, axle alignmnet front to rear and side to side. In other words you hosed the whole geometry as it was designed to work, and, unless you corrected all of these with other parts you see the result.

Now, you are going to get 15 people saying "I put x part on and had no problem", etc, etc, etc. Great, getting lucky makes one feel good but it ain't the solution. Don't get fooled by this, YOU got death wobble with a leveling kit. Thats all that matters, not somebody elses setup.

What causes DW? Answer is lots of things can contribute and there is no single formula, or fix for that matter. Shocks starting to wear or incorrectly valved, tires not adequate for the job or worn funny or something wrong with them, too much slack in the steering (worn parts), too much leverage on the steering sector causing deflection, suspension binding or being forced to run in an incorrect way, caster and axle alignment.

Those are the major areas and just about every DW problem will have its roots in one or more.

You said you aligned the front end after the leveling kit install. What did you set caster to?

Larger tires are going to require more caster to drive correctly, different styles and brands will react differently. Load rating and sidewal strength will play a large part in how they react. Generally a load range D tire is a big no-no because the sidewall strenth is NOT adequate for the weight on them. I don't care if they are rated for more weight than what is on them, side deflection is the problem and that is not rated.

There is a limit to how tall a tire can be and still keep sidewalls rigid enough. A 315 tire is really beyond what should be on a 17" rim. The Toyos and Nittos seem to be pretty good in that size and E ratings but everything has to be right or they will wobble also. All the rest of the tires you are taking chances with.

The lveling kit moved your axle 1/2-3/4 of an inch to the drivers side, rolled the whole thing forward which reduced the caster, and moved it back 1/4-12 inch in the wheel wheel. When you draw this out it a CAD application you can see what happens. Tough the changes are subtle it does matter.

Without an adjustable track bar and justable control arms you simply cannot compensate. The geometry of the suspension has gone form running relatively parallel to the ground and describing a smooth arc that allows the shocks and springs to work, to angle that is pushing into the ground more. Add the extra weight form the engine and you hit situations where the the truck is trying to drive the front axle into the ground and the tires just start to bounce. Unless the shocks are extremely good and valved to handle the rebound correctly, DW ensues. Not all the time, not with every truck and tire, but the potential is there ALL the time for it even if it does not show.

 

i have this posted to another forum and so far alift is the common denominator. a lift without a drop pitman arm or adjustable trackbar. it is deffinately a heated debate. i have a cherokee wth the same issue.

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i agree with all of that. small light trucks with lifts are doing it too. i am thinking alot about the drop pitman arm. looking at the steering, non lifted trucks have steering rods that are in an inline position. as it is lifted the linkages are pulled more to an x or y shape. the load has gone from a push/pull as designed to a side load like a bowstring. too many lift kits are being sold incomplete to cut cost. this is purely opinion!!!! im sorry i didnt want a debate over the cause just looking for a poll on what you are runnin and if you have it or not. thanks for weighin in.

 

Moving the lower control arm eccentrics full forward compensates for the caster issue. That, and an adjustable track bar enables a basic 2" puck-type leveling lift to be used effectively.

That would be the minimum requirement for a properly installed basic front leveling lift. You still have minor issues with the shocks and sway bar. Anything more goes up orders of magnitude in cost to be done right.

 

Yes it gets that way. Probably 90% the most vocal never progressed beyond basic math and simple high school physics was beyond them. The old saying "you can't fix stupid" really shows up in some of these debates.

You don't really need a drop pitman arm until you get beyond 4" of lift but it doesn't hurt. The drop blocks for the sway bar plus the sway bar links are much more important than the pitman arm. With the tires you installed a DSS is almost a must though.

 

thanks for your info. again im not looking for a debate in what causes it just a poll on what you are runnin and if you have it or not. there are so many threads debating it already.

 

Worn parts cause it. It occurs on stock trucks quite commonly.

Bad steering geometry makes parts wear out faster and amplifies it.

Despite the ongoing complex mystery surrounding this issue, that's really all there is to it.

 

i have an 08 dodge had dw 1 time and it was the tierod to pitman arm first i had leveling kit with 35s then went to a 3.5 lift and now im with a 6'' lift with 35s to this day i can run wide open and it drives like a caddy dual stabilizer shocks factory trac bbar just drop bracket drop pitman arm and all the other drop brackets that are suppose to be there im fixing to switch to 37'' tires my buddy had an 09 had the dw prob 8'' lift and 37'' tires drove it for about a week after install dw started had it the shop checking diff things and added dual stabilizer shocks and a few other things checkked all tie rods and ended up being bad shock bushings with in a week or two put new shock bushing solved the dw