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1st Generation Dodge Cummins 89-93 Discussion of 12 Valve 5.9 Liter Dodge Cummins Diesels with Rotary Injection Pumps

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I'm curiose to why everyone thinks that 2 nd gen injectors wont work. if you are worried about opening pressures, all you have to do is add shim packs or take away meaning if a 2nd gen injector has higher opening pressure, all you would ... JOIN NOW TO REMOVE TRACER

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  #1  
Old 06-03-2009, 07:46 AM
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Default Difference Between 1st and Second Gen Injectors

I'm curiose to why everyone thinks that 2 nd gen injectors wont work.

if you are worried about opening pressures, all you have to do is add shim packs or take away meaning if a 2nd gen injector has higher opening pressure, all you would have to do is get a shim pack with lower clearance or grind about .001 at each time and check to see where your opening pressure is.

or maybe I'm not understanding
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  #2  
Old 06-03-2009, 11:01 AM
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2nd gen INJECTORS will not work the bodies are different, you can put the 2nd gen tips on the 1st gen boddies then you have to go pay someone (unless you have your own machine) to set the pop pressure. Pop pressures are a sensitive thing, not something your average joe can do at home.

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Last edited by RSWORDS; 06-03-2009 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:44 AM
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is the injector a dodge brand, I have injectors that fit cpl's that go from 92 to 98.5

not much of a difference, the pressures are normally the same between 200 and 300, for a ve (non certified) ve (ee certified ) DPS type, DPA type, CVA type, when you have an A inline or P inline pump then the pressures are set a little higher, only thing that has changed unless DODGE is doing there own, the shims have changed.

do you have an OEM part # or CUMMINS part #, maybe i can figure this out and this could be a really cheap upgrade, I'll try and find a diagram of what I'm talking about.
ok I found it but it says it will not except for upload, it is in word form.

is there another way to upload? not too good with computers.


here are the #'s that i come up with

3802337+3920100 cav edge filter injector 7mm tip cpl # 983 1168 1266 1279
3802191 =3915806 ve pump option pp960 pp1246 pp1403
i get cross ref # for the p inline pump as well, all have the same body, just different shim, even if you buy aftermarket injectors, the bodys are the same for the 12 valves except the non inter cooled which should be 9mm
this is used for 1st and 2nd gen here is the only difference
shim# 3905156 1.00mm thick
shim# 3905157 1.04mm thick
shim# 3905158 1.08mm thick
shim# 3905159 1.10mm thick
shim# 3905160 1.14mm thick

the list goes all the way down to 1.98 mm thick the bigger the shim the higher the pressure will be.

i have a list of injector # with their NOP or what they should be.

Last edited by cummins_guy; 06-03-2009 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:20 PM
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Go ahead and try and hook a 2nd gen body up to a 1st gen line... You can pull all the part numbers you want, The end of an 1st gen injector line is a 12mm while the p-pump is a 14mm.

Pop pressure on 1st gen is right around 245 bar , and the 2nd gen's right around 260 bar (Thats a pretty good difference, The little VE wont pop them off effectivly)

So again YOU CAN NOT PUT INJECTORS MADE FOR A SECOND GEN 12V IN A 1ST GEN ENGINE!

And you adaptors are wrong, the non-IC'ed heads had 9mm nozzles and all teh VE and P-pump injectors from the intercooled on were 7mm.

Last edited by RSWORDS; 06-03-2009 at 01:22 PM..
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  #5  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:27 PM
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post was way to long

Last edited by cummins_guy; 06-03-2009 at 04:53 PM..
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  #6  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:29 PM
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You can not physically hook a 2nd gen injector up to a VE-pumped 1st gen cummins! Sure it will fit in the hole but you cant hook up the injector line. And if you did hook it up somehow the VE pump would not pop it well enough for the engine to run well.

trust me, lots have been there and tried... Alot of people have been burned by buying 2nd gen injectors also.

Last edited by RSWORDS; 06-03-2009 at 02:56 PM..
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:42 PM
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well the engines that mess with have 17mm

look i don't mess with dodge cummins, I mess with cummins engines that are in over road truck, and military vehicles, i have a set of rotary lines and a set of p pump lines, they fit my injectors and they are from from the same dealer, if dodge has made their own then that is the difference,I just started messing with dodge becasue i bought one so that i can make my own parts and take to the track and have fun, not trying to turn this into a argument
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:45 PM
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All the lines are straight from cummins, not a dodge part. the 1st gens have a 17mm nut but its a 12mm thread. (which would be how you size such things) There is no such thing as a "dodge" cummins, The engine assembly came straight from cummins and went right in the truck.
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:57 PM
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well then their is a diffrence,i jsut took a set of rotary lines and installed a 7mm injector that we have here and it fit with no problem at all, then took a set of P inline fuel lines and installed the same injector, there was no difference and they both passed pressure testing, there is a difference between dodge civilian use and commercial use.

engines that i have worked on
v903 USED IN PERSONNEL AMPHIBIOUS VEHICLE FOR MILITARY
555
554
4b
4bt
4bta
6b
6bt
6bta
6btaa
6c
6ct
6cta
k19 1150
k50 you guys prob have seen one of these but never new it, they go down the track, the engine is used to power the electric generators aboard the train

teledine continental avds 1790 TANKS

53, 71 92 SERIES DETRIOT
I have worked all over the globe, not your average backyard mechanic
AGAIN I say I'm not here to argue but find out

Last edited by RSWORDS; 06-03-2009 at 02:57 PM..
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  #10  
Old 06-03-2009, 02:59 PM
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I have edited and deleted posts (even my own) we all need to knock it down a notch.
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