Ball joints, axle U-joints and more at local shop or DIY?
#1
01-21-2014, 04:18 PM
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Colorado
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Ball joints, axle U-joints and more at local shop or DIY?
I've had my dodge for about a year now and am finding out more and more about it the further I go!
Just a touch over 200k mi when I bought it, the first issue was driveshaft u-joints and carrier bearing, which I let a reputable local diesel shop take care of it for me. (had few other issues as well)
Within a couple months the front wheel bearings croaked. Visited my new old buddies at the shop, good as new and off I went!
Recently I caught a grinding/metal scraping noise coming from driver's side wheel when turning right - mostly on hard right turns. I lifted the front end and there was a little bit of back and forth play when grabbing the wheel at 12-6. I took it to the shop because they had just done the bearings and wanted to make sure it wasn't a defective new part.
Their diagnoses was lower ball joints (I have d60 kingpins). I was hoping you experienced guys could give some insight as I would like to restore the truck as efficiently as possible. I'm concerned that since the lower ball joints failed so close to the wheel bearings, there are likely other parts not far behind. This old dodge has been molested and abused!
So far the shop has replaced wheel bearings both sides, new brakes and serviced rotors and replaced a damaged driver side hub (would not truly engage 4x4).
Other front-end work still needed, that i know of so far:
New steering box - thinking redhead
Steering shaft - thinking borgeson
Lower ball joints
The PO replaced steering box but there is slop in the steering wheel and truck pulls to right. The steering shaft appears to be stripped; turning left has much better turn radius than turning right.
The shop quoted $1040.00 + tax for doing the steering box, lower ball joints and alignment. Or $630 for just the ball joints and alignment. These quotes do not include steering shaft or other front end parts.
Am going to ask them to offer a quote including axle u-joints, steering shaft and tie rods (maybe pitman arm too?) for comparison sake. I don't want to replace the ball joints and then 1 month later something else, requiring the same parts disassembled over and over!
To you experienced guys, at what point do you say F IT and do it all yourself? I'm assuming the additional parts would bring the shops quote closer to $1,500 or more. Is there a worthwhile savings to DIY? I have read the search threads and bookmarked notes on ball joint presses and various special tools required... and seen how some guys needed torches and whatnot, which I don't have access to.
Longterm I'd enjoy doing as much work on the truck myself as I can but given the rough condition of the truck is it worthwhile to spend perhaps twice as much to let my new buds wrestle with seized bolts and whatnot?
Just a touch over 200k mi when I bought it, the first issue was driveshaft u-joints and carrier bearing, which I let a reputable local diesel shop take care of it for me. (had few other issues as well)
Within a couple months the front wheel bearings croaked. Visited my new old buddies at the shop, good as new and off I went!
Recently I caught a grinding/metal scraping noise coming from driver's side wheel when turning right - mostly on hard right turns. I lifted the front end and there was a little bit of back and forth play when grabbing the wheel at 12-6. I took it to the shop because they had just done the bearings and wanted to make sure it wasn't a defective new part.
Their diagnoses was lower ball joints (I have d60 kingpins). I was hoping you experienced guys could give some insight as I would like to restore the truck as efficiently as possible. I'm concerned that since the lower ball joints failed so close to the wheel bearings, there are likely other parts not far behind. This old dodge has been molested and abused!
So far the shop has replaced wheel bearings both sides, new brakes and serviced rotors and replaced a damaged driver side hub (would not truly engage 4x4).
Other front-end work still needed, that i know of so far:
New steering box - thinking redhead
Steering shaft - thinking borgeson
Lower ball joints
The PO replaced steering box but there is slop in the steering wheel and truck pulls to right. The steering shaft appears to be stripped; turning left has much better turn radius than turning right.
The shop quoted $1040.00 + tax for doing the steering box, lower ball joints and alignment. Or $630 for just the ball joints and alignment. These quotes do not include steering shaft or other front end parts.
Am going to ask them to offer a quote including axle u-joints, steering shaft and tie rods (maybe pitman arm too?) for comparison sake. I don't want to replace the ball joints and then 1 month later something else, requiring the same parts disassembled over and over!
To you experienced guys, at what point do you say F IT and do it all yourself? I'm assuming the additional parts would bring the shops quote closer to $1,500 or more. Is there a worthwhile savings to DIY? I have read the search threads and bookmarked notes on ball joint presses and various special tools required... and seen how some guys needed torches and whatnot, which I don't have access to.
Longterm I'd enjoy doing as much work on the truck myself as I can but given the rough condition of the truck is it worthwhile to spend perhaps twice as much to let my new buds wrestle with seized bolts and whatnot?
#2
01-21-2014, 05:20 PM
I haven't done a Dodge Ram front end but I've done plenty of front ends. The only real issue is you need a spring compressor for the coil springs. You can rent one from a store for free.
Second is the ball joints as well as the control arm bushings. Ball joints can be screw in, bolt/rivet in, or pressed in. If they're pressed in, I take them down to have them pressed out. What I would do is take the control arms out, take them down to a machine shop, and have them press the old control arm bushings and ball joints out. You're looking at about $30-40 per control arm for them to press them in/out. Ball joints, preferably MOOG, are like $65 ea. Control arm bushings can be had for about $80 a set.
You can place control arm bushings, tie rods, and ball joints for like $350-400 and then add alignment for around $50.
Like a $450 cost do it yourself for a complete rebuild.
Steering gearbox? That should be easy DIY Job. Biggiest issue is getting the pitman arm off which can be on there pretty good. I've found pitman arms that are under a leaky steering gearbox so they have years of oil on them come off a lot easier than dry ones. Again, you can rent a pitman arm puller, and an impact wrench will come in handy. Either that or a very long cheater bar.
To do JUST all 4 ball joints and aligment? Like $300. Add on the cost of the steering gearbox. I'd be surprised if you have to spend more than $250 for a stock one. So to do what the mechanic is quoting you (2 ball joints and alignment), I would have to pay $100 for the ball joints, $50 for alignment, and $50 to have them pressed in/out. That's some pretty big savings over the $630 they're quoting you.
U Joints are an easy DIY job.
I've never dealt with those ball joint presses, I've always just taken the control arms to a machine shop and have them do it. Based on what your shop quotes you for a simple ball joint/aligment, I'd say it would be about $300 or so in savings.
It's really up to you if you want to go down the DIY path. For someone who's never done it, pulling all 4 control arms can be an all day deal.
***EDIT: I didn't realize you had a 4WD and I've never worked on a 4WD so some of what i said doesn't apply, like the coil springs. Sorry about that. But you could just add the cost of all the parts and see the difference between what the mechanic would charge you and what it would cost would be to do it yourself. Whenever I've done a front end, I did it all at one time. It would be bad if you replaced the ball joints only to leave worn out control arm bushings on there, so that's why I did it the way I did.
I haven't taken my car to a repair shop in decades, until recently, to get the A/C serviced. When I get quotes for certain things, the savings I get for doing it myself can be pretty big.
Second is the ball joints as well as the control arm bushings. Ball joints can be screw in, bolt/rivet in, or pressed in. If they're pressed in, I take them down to have them pressed out. What I would do is take the control arms out, take them down to a machine shop, and have them press the old control arm bushings and ball joints out. You're looking at about $30-40 per control arm for them to press them in/out. Ball joints, preferably MOOG, are like $65 ea. Control arm bushings can be had for about $80 a set.
You can place control arm bushings, tie rods, and ball joints for like $350-400 and then add alignment for around $50.
Like a $450 cost do it yourself for a complete rebuild.
Steering gearbox? That should be easy DIY Job. Biggiest issue is getting the pitman arm off which can be on there pretty good. I've found pitman arms that are under a leaky steering gearbox so they have years of oil on them come off a lot easier than dry ones. Again, you can rent a pitman arm puller, and an impact wrench will come in handy. Either that or a very long cheater bar.
To do JUST all 4 ball joints and aligment? Like $300. Add on the cost of the steering gearbox. I'd be surprised if you have to spend more than $250 for a stock one. So to do what the mechanic is quoting you (2 ball joints and alignment), I would have to pay $100 for the ball joints, $50 for alignment, and $50 to have them pressed in/out. That's some pretty big savings over the $630 they're quoting you.
U Joints are an easy DIY job.
I've never dealt with those ball joint presses, I've always just taken the control arms to a machine shop and have them do it. Based on what your shop quotes you for a simple ball joint/aligment, I'd say it would be about $300 or so in savings.
It's really up to you if you want to go down the DIY path. For someone who's never done it, pulling all 4 control arms can be an all day deal.
***EDIT: I didn't realize you had a 4WD and I've never worked on a 4WD so some of what i said doesn't apply, like the coil springs. Sorry about that. But you could just add the cost of all the parts and see the difference between what the mechanic would charge you and what it would cost would be to do it yourself. Whenever I've done a front end, I did it all at one time. It would be bad if you replaced the ball joints only to leave worn out control arm bushings on there, so that's why I did it the way I did.
I haven't taken my car to a repair shop in decades, until recently, to get the A/C serviced. When I get quotes for certain things, the savings I get for doing it myself can be pretty big.
Last edited by metriccar; 01-21-2014 at 05:40 PM.
#3
01-21-2014, 06:33 PM
You pay a shop for the ability, the speed and the warranty. Remember shops sell a value added service (not just parts and labor. Includes a warranty) so remember that when making your choice. So if your ok with taking those responsibilities and think you have the required tools and knowledge go for it.
$300 savings = fighting a stuck hub for an hour or two, damaging new parts, renting or borrowing tools vs paying a shop, get the truck back same day, not having any frustrations involved with things going wrong and if it breaks you take it back and it gets fixed.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
$300 savings = fighting a stuck hub for an hour or two, damaging new parts, renting or borrowing tools vs paying a shop, get the truck back same day, not having any frustrations involved with things going wrong and if it breaks you take it back and it gets fixed.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
#4
01-22-2014, 01:51 AM
I found out the tools & parts cost me about half what it costs at a shop. Then I found out I save another ~30% buying the parts online instead of locally.
Ya, it takes time and you're learning as you go. I've found out what types of vehicle I can tolerate working on, and I have a few so I'm not diving into major work on what I'm currently driving.
You need to rebuild your kingpins from the sounds of it. There's a lower bearing and race. There's an upper spring and nylon cone. You can the basic stuff from Rockauto, or a more thorough kit from most of the online 4wd shops. If you want heavy duty aftermarket you can get bronze cones and a shimmed adjuster - probably not necessary unless you plan on huge tires and a lot of offroading.
You can do a decent alignment with a tape measure.
Steering boxes are the same 2wd and 4wd... find a used one that doesn't leak (2wd gas truck steering boxes have had an easy life) Or try your luck at installing the $30 rebuild kit (that's all the remans have done to them anyways). Pitman arm puller was $15 for me to buy. I heated it with a mapp gas torch, couple whacks with a hammer, and the puller did the rest. Borgeson steering shaft is a nice unit. I have one truck with one. The 2 trucks I wrecked out still had good original shafts. Must be some good ones left in the boneyards. I bet you can buy a very good parts truck for less than the cost of a Borgeson shaft and the Redhead steering box.
Pitman arm nut is 1-5/16". You need a wrench because it is too close to the spring for a socket. Make sure you lock the steering column in straight-ahead. You don't want to undo your steering shaft and accidentally spin the steering wheel too many times and snap the clockspring. (There goes your horn & cruise) Glad I caught mine in time, but it meant pulling the steering wheel and rewinding the damn thing very carefully.
Googling and these forums are a tremendous help for the DIYer. Hope this all helps.
