12Valve Fuel Plate - Page 2

mysterync · #16 02-07-2012, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by 94 12valve

agree to disagree works for me

Here is what I have been doing, to make the afc a fuel stop all you need is a boost elbow. insted of using it on the wastegate install it on the supply line to the afc. this way it limits how much air the afc gets making it a effective fuel stop ... also makes the foot travel a lot smoother

A boost elbow dosent limit anything, it only slows the flow in turn slowing the activation of the spring. You still have no control of tuning and either low end or top end fueling is limited. Its better than a factory afc controlling the fueling. But its still not adequate fuel control, even more so while towing.
I don't see why you couldn't design something with a servo that could fine tune the fueling according to a boost and rpm referenced map but it would take a ton of time with a wideband gas analyzer, dyno and data logger with egt and boost reference to accomplish what the plate was intended to do, you could probably do it better. That's just alot of work

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tower_ofpower · #17 02-07-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by mysterync

A boost elbow dosent limit anything, it only slows the flow in turn slowing the activation of the spring. You still have no control of tuning and either low end or top end fueling is limited. Its better than a factory afc controlling the fueling. But its still not adequate fuel control, even more so while towing.
I don't see why you couldn't design something with a servo that could fine tune the fueling according to a boost and rpm referenced map but it would take a ton of time with a wideband gas analyzer, dyno and data logger with egt and boost reference to accomplish what the plate was intended to do, you could probably do it better. That's just alot of work

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Not to mention; extremely expensive... When a $30 hunk of steel can do the trick

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mysterync · #18 02-07-2012, 08:05 PM

Exactly....very expensive

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Gunmetal · #19 02-07-2012, 09:43 PM

Easy guys.

I agree, AFC has limited control for pre-boost fuel without fuel plate.
If you mash your foot into the pedal without a fuel plate it is going to give you MAXIMUM FUELING. This means if you are going really slow in second gear and mash the pedal you are going to blow huge clouds of black smoke, it contaminates your oil.. wastes fuel.. and won't clear up until it matches the appropriate RPM.

A fuel plate adds fuel at a pre-set boost level that is designed to also correspond with RPM.
So, if you have the correct fuel plate you should be able to mash the throttle and get a little puff of smoke but it should be fairly clean power all the way till it defuels. The initial smoke is to reduce response time and allow the turbo to build boost.

mysterync · #20 02-07-2012, 11:05 PM

I guess the best way to say it is the governor arm moves up and down for a reason.

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Gunmetal · #21 02-07-2012, 11:44 PM

It's critical if you don't want to have to be too careful with how hard you press the throttle.
"AFC has limited control for pre-boost fuel without fuel plate."
I meant AFC has limited control over fueling, it controls pre-boost.
The ARM that follows the contour of the plate is what tells it how to fuel, just like a piano following a piano roll.

Bad example into this discussion.........

Simply put it gives your truck the right amount of fuel when you need it, not excess fueling.
It allows you to DRIVE your truck and it takes care of the fueling for you, no need to baby the throttle like you need to with the fuel plate removed.

94 12valve · #22 02-08-2012, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by mysterync

A boost elbow dosent limit anything, it only slows the flow in turn slowing the activation of the spring. You still have no control of tuning and either low end or top end fueling is limited. Its better than a factory afc controlling the fueling. But its still not adequate fuel control, even more so while towing.
I don't see why you couldn't design something with a servo that could fine tune the fueling according to a boost and rpm referenced map but it would take a ton of time with a wideband gas analyzer, dyno and data logger with egt and boost reference to accomplish what the plate was intended to do, you could probably do it better. That's just alot of work

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If you have 40 psi on one side of the elbow and adjust it so only 15 gets through it becomes a fuel stop. This way gives you more tuning ability than just a fuel plate.

Originally Posted by tower_ofpower

Not to mention; extremely expensive... When a $30 hunk of steel can do the trick

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back when every fuel plate cost $250 was it worth it than?

mysterync · #23 02-08-2012, 11:09 AM

That's a boost elbow fail....that's not how a boost elbow works. It dosent regulate, it only slows the flow.

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94 12valve · #24 02-08-2012, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by mysterync

That's a boost elbow fail....that's not how a boost elbow works. It dosent regulate, it only slows the flow.

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Depends on your type of elbow. Tested some were you apply 40 psi to one side and you can adjust them to anything you want on the other side ... so it in fact does regulate

Also found this that you posted in another thread ... funny how you just proved it can infact be a fuel stop

Originally Posted by mysterync

Is the AFC Functioning? If you only knew the number of customers that came in with low or no power claims and the afc was slid back or the reference line had a hole in it.

mysterync · #25 02-08-2012, 11:19 AM

Rofl never seen a boost elbow do that. My guess is you haven't either, basic physics and wastegate operation, if it regulates the wastegate wont function correctly. Spring rate and all ya know.
Secondly, your digging yourself a hole you can't dig out of, I didn't say it wouldn't work as a fuel stop I said it would limit either top end or low end. Read back and you'll see that. At this point I think your just grabbing at threads trying to prove your correct when your wrong.
There is nothing you can say that changes the fact the afc can not and will not do the job of the fuel plate.
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tower_ofpower · #26 02-08-2012, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by 94 12valve

Depends on your type of elbow. Tested some were you apply 40 psi to one side and you can adjust them to anything you want on the other side ... so it in fact does regulate

Also found this that you posted in another thread ... funny how you just proved it can infact be a fuel stop

yes it acts as a stop... That's what it was designed for. LOW BOOST fuel stop. Our point is, that it doesn't replace the purpose of a fuel plate. Why would you tune the AFC to slowly let the gov arm come forward when you can do the same thing with your foot with the AFC moved out of the way

already said it before... If it works for you; great... Just because it works doesn't make it right... It's like duct taping two effin ladders together to clean your gutters. you don't have a long enough ladder and your neighbor is an A hole and won't let you borrow his...so you do something that works; but it isn't right. And back when fuel plates were 250; (which some people still try to charge) you just cut your own

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94 12valve · #27 02-08-2012, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by mysterync

Rofl never seen a boost elbow do that. My guess is you haven't either, basic physics and wastegate operation, if it regulates the wastegate wont function correctly. Spring rate and all ya know.
Secondly, your digging yourself a hole you can't dig out of, I didn't say it wouldn't work as a fuel stop I said it would limit either top end or low end. Read back and you'll see that. At this point I think your just grabbing at threads trying to prove your correct when your wrong.

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I'm not digging a hole I posted up on that same thread and got a kick out of your responce. I'm not wrong, if you regulate the singal going to the gate it will still work all you need is enough pressure to overcome the spring when you want the gate to open.Thats not that hard to understand, maybe I'll see you at an event this year and I can show you what I'm talking about.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Originally Posted by tower_ofpower

yes it acts as a stop... That's what it was designed for. LOW BOOST fuel stop. Our point is, that it doesn't replace the purpose of a fuel plate. Why would you tune the AFC to slowly let the gov arm come forward when you can do the same thing with your foot with the AFC moved out of the way already said it before... If it works for you; great... Just because it works doesn't make it right... It's like duct taping two effin ladders together to clean your gutters. you don't have a long enough ladder and your neighbor is an A hole and won't let you borrow his...so you do something that works; but it isn't right. And back when fuel plates were 250; (which some people still try to charge) you just cut your own

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sigh, my point here is yes it in fact can replace the plate. Say what you two want but apparently thinking out of the box can't happen round here.

mysterync · #28 02-08-2012, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by 94 12valve

I'm not digging a hole I posted up on that same thread and got a kick out of your responce. I'm not wrong, if you regulate the singal going to the gate it will still work all you need is enough pressure to overcome the spring when you want the gate to open.Thats not that hard to understand, maybe I'll see you at an event this year and I can show you what I'm talking about.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

sigh, my point here is yes it in fact can replace the plate. Say what you two want but apparently thinking out of the box can't happen round here.

Your wrong In a real bad kinda way. Im done here your ignorance bugs the crap outa me.
You should take a physics class and come back and tell us how your boost elbow works. I just hope some poor unsuspecting person dosent follow your recommendations and screw their vehicle up.
I've tried real hard to not let this get personal but you refuse to think for one second someone else might be right, and your self righteousness will only damage forums and those participating.

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Pyro690 · #29 02-08-2012, 01:02 PM

I kinda like Dave's idea. Think I might give that a shot.

tower_ofpower · #30 02-08-2012, 02:05 PM

I guess it's like arguing with people that the #100 plate is the end all plates to run and that there's no point to use anything else... A lot of people have that attitude. An AFC foot looks an awful lot like a 100 profile thinking about it... Thinkin mysterync has the right idea on this one, just to let it go. Glad your slow moving boost controlled 100 plate works for ya.

Just not something I view to be correct and wouldn't do it to my truck, but that's my opinion.

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